1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data Hi and Thanks to anyone that takes time to help! This is not a homework thing but a 'discussion' with friends. Please excuse my crappy drawings... The measurments are not important only that it is the same frame either with strut or reversed for tie. The difference in opinion is simply that one says there is more force pulling the top screw from the wall in the tie senarios of each design, while the other says there is no difference in force on the top screw either way round. (We are both in our late 30's so it was some time since working out any actual equations- let alone remembering which ones are relevant) 2. Relevant equations Errr...vectors, moments..?? 3. The attempt at a solution It's been too long but only exact maths is gonna conclude this little discussion! Please, please can you prove the error in one of our heads and make the other safe in the knowledge they are not a complete idiot! EDITave I put this in teh wrong section? It just seemed the best place fer an exact answer.