Forced air generated electricity

I know I have read something similar to this topic in the forums a few times over and found most of the responses to be rather narrow in the understanding of the concept as well as the execution...While yes many raised alot of valid concerns that when looked at as a singular issue would spell out a complete failure of concept...

However,

Recently I have been doing some trial experiments for a patent pending system I am developing...The concept is rather simple....Using Chinese made alternators meant for charging and powering small radios and or light systems combined with a now patented wind blade, then assembled into a channel I was able to produce enough volts and amps to actually recharge the battery of a hybrid car....

The principle is simple. From 0-10 miles and hour the force of pressure created from the movement of the car equals to a loss of electrical generation and in truth creates a drag on the system entirely. From 11-26 miles an hour the system begins to return a flow of electricity that would equal out to 10% of the charge that would be given off by a conventional ic engine alternator. From 27-50 mph I was getting a return of almost 50% of the charge....

Now these were just 6 simple disc alternators using rather simple permanent magnets. Imagine if you will a hood with two channels each one sporting a 6 series generation setup.
Now while i know that it will not sustain the vehicle as the laws of physics will come to play, but the goal of this project was not to make a completely self sustained machine, instead it was to increase the mileage of a hybrid car could obtain....Once a few issues of vibrations and shearing force are resolved I am convinced that the system it self could take a standard 12.5 gallon tank hybrid car and allow it to travel 900 miles per tank...

Mind you Im also in the process of working on a high efficiency film similar to window tinting that can be used to gather solar energy off the windows of the car to increase this as well...Mind you driving at night would lessen the efficiency with this but overall I think it could work out to where your basic hybrid will get more miles per tank and save you more money...

Right now Im using a converted prius, however soon I will be switching up to a fusion as the longer hood would mean easier channeling of the air forced into the turbines.
 

russ_watters

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Welcome to pf.

You're using the gas engine to generate wind to spin a turbine to spin an alternator to charge the battery. It would be more efficient to connect the alternator directly to the gas engine. Adding intermediate steps decreases your efficiency.
 
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Sigh again missing the point...air induction system is meant to provide charge to the hybrid battery system " you know the thing that powers the electrical engine", during both electric mode and in gas mode....While under the use of gas the forced air into the turbine system will speed up the process of charging. While under electric mode the system will be given a charge provided by two slow release caps that work on a switch system so while one is unloading the charge into the battery the other is recharging....This system was needed as the result of a inconstant charging isssue leading to shortened life span of the hybrid battery.

The concept is meant to extend out the milage by not forcing the car to only rely on electrical generation from the Ic engine's alternator....I also thought of just reworking the mountings to add another alternator, however the amount of force need to turn the second alternator would bog down the engine under low rpm and thus cause a stall.....

Now I will admit the main short fall to this system will be in city driving as the start, stop aspect of traffic there would in turn generate very little...So in this the city milage would be about the same if not 2% better. However on Hi ways and long travel the system would perform greatly better.

Now here is the only issue I have really been annoyed with is the power loss under the conversion generation is ac then converted to dc to be dropped down into the battery....Annoying to say the least but Im sure I can lessen this impact with more refinement to my voltage regulation system....

In many ways I see this as a turbo for the electrical system.
 

russ_watters

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I understood fine. In electric only operation its even worse: you use an electric motor to generate wind to spin a turbine to spin an alternator to charge a battery. The system is one continuous loop which does nothing but waste energy. In that mode, you'd be better off just disconnecting the recovery system.
 
please explain as I have already shown positive results as the system creates very little drag as it is using the friction of air particles against the hood of the car as its in motion. to create an electrical feed that is then applied to the battery....A similar system can be found on larger jets as part of there apu's...

I mean I think you may not understand something here perhaps the actual size of the alternators....which are about the size of a 50 cent piece and about 3x as thick.

If you think about it forced air induction systems in cars have been used before...Air dams to channel brake cooling. Forced air compression used by say a ram air intake super charger, and to create more downforce and changing the center of gravity of the vehicle....

One completely assembled channel wieghs les then 5lbs. And once I am able to perfect the system for the best results I will then be able to lessen that to the point of both units will add a total of 5 lbs of weight as for issues of drag...Well since Im using the force slammed to the front of the car to channel this as well as a special method of air manipulation i have not been able to notice a single bit of performance issues.....

Now dont take this as a slam or anything but have you ever tried or have you just stuck to the math......? Cause most great concepts came from pushing what we know.
 

russ_watters

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please explain as I have already shown positive results..
You've actually done successful tests, measuring the power output of your generator, while monitoring engine load and comparing the fuel flow rate of the modified car with an unmodified car? I'd be very interested to see your results and methodology.
...as the system creates very little drag as it is using the friction of air particles against the hood of the car as its in motion.
At the very least, a wind turbine removes from the wind in the form of drag, an energy equal to the energy it generates. Conservation of energy demands this.
A similar system can be found on larger jets as part of there apu's...
Yes. And no aircraft engineer would ever claim that a ram air turbine can generate power without slowing down the plane.
I mean I think you may not understand something here perhaps the actual size of the alternators....which are about the size of a 50 cent piece and about 3x as thick.
Size doesn't have anything at all to do with efficiency, though it will make it more difficult to prove you have a positive net energy output if they are too much smaller than the car's engine.
If you think about it forced air induction systems in cars have been used before...Air dams to channel brake cooling. Forced air compression used by say a ram air intake super charger, and to create more downforce and changing the center of gravity of channel wieghs les then 5lbs.
None of those spins a turbine to generate power.
And once I am able to perfect the system for the best results I will then be able to lessen that to the point of both units will add a total of 5 lbs of weight as for issues of drag...Well since Im using the force slammed to the front of the car to channel this as well as a special method of air manipulation i have not been able to notice a single bit of performance issues.....
If you're not generating much power because the system is small, you won't notice it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Look, people ask this exact question in here about every other month. Search the thread for more discussion. The bottom line is that conservation of energy demands that a wind turbine on a car is powered by the car's engine and there can be no net energy gain unless the turbine eliminates another source of drag. And modern cars just don't have a lot of wasted drag. The only possible place we could come up with is air flow through the engine compartment. Blocking airflow through the engine compartment will reduce drag, but:
1. You'd lose cooling. In winter, at high speed you may use the radiator fan as a turbine, but all other times, you need the fan to be a fan.
2. Just blocking the airflow with shutters would be more efficient than using it to spin a turbine.
Now dont take this as a slam or anything but have you ever tried or have you just stuck to the math......?
I have never tried putting a turbine on a car, no. The reason I haven't tried is because I understand that it violates one of the most fundamental scientific principles there is: conservation of energy.

And I'm sorry, but you can't escape math here. You're claiming an energy gain. People are going to want to know how much. So you need to either calculate it or measure it. And when you do - if you do it right - you'll find your energy gain to be a loss.
Cause most great concepts came from pushing what we know.
Agreed, but you aren't pushing what we know, you're just doing something well known to be wrong. I'm sorry, but your idea isn't new. Your mistake is much more common than you realize. Do a forum search for wind turbine on a car and you'll see that many have had the same idea.
 

brewnog

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Chivalry, unfortunately for you, you'd do well to pay attention to Russ's comments. Your premise violates the most basic laws of thermodynamics. You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, so do a little reading on it, understand the flaw, and then focus your efforts in something meaningful.

Best wishes.
 

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