Forming O2 Molecule: Heat or Chemistry?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formation of the O2 molecule from individual oxygen atoms, exploring whether this process can be achieved through heat or if it is primarily a chemical reaction. Participants also touch on related concepts such as electrolysis and the use of water in fuel cells.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the process by which individual oxygen atoms combine to form O2, questioning the role of heat in this process.
  • Another participant notes that oxygen is highly reactive due to its unpaired electrons and suggests that it readily forms molecules, including O2, with minimal energy input.
  • A third participant describes the electrolysis of water as a scenario where free oxygen atoms form at the anode and quickly recombine to create O2, even at room temperature.
  • One contributor emphasizes that the question of O2 formation is more physical than chemical, relating it to the concept of ground states and energy levels of electrons in atoms.
  • Another participant mentions that while O2 can form, carbon dioxide (CO2) represents a more energetically favorable state for oxygen atoms when combined with carbon.
  • A participant expresses interest in using water as fuel for a school project, asking for feedback on the feasibility of using electrolysis to separate hydrogen and oxygen for power generation.
  • Responses indicate that while the proposed fuel cell concept could work, it involves a net energy loss since more energy is required to separate H2 and O than can be gained from their combustion.
  • One participant clarifies that water acts more like a battery than a direct fuel source due to the energy costs associated with splitting it into hydrogen and oxygen.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the formation of O2 and the efficiency of using water as a fuel source. There is no consensus on the best approach or the energy dynamics involved, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about energy states and reactions depend on specific conditions and definitions that are not fully explored in the discussion. The relationship between energy input and output in the context of fuel cells remains unresolved.

dlilpyro
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How do individual oxygen atoms combine to form the O2 molecule? Can it be done with heat?
 
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Oxygen has several unpaired electrons and is VERY reactive. It will readily form molecules with many different substances, including itself. It doesn't take much to do it.
 
A situation where this happens is when you electrolyze water. Free oxygen atoms form at the anode and immeadiately recombine to form O2. At room temperature.
 
In chemistry as in other sciences, I must begin by highlighting the fact that I claim no particular expertise. But I have seen a very good explanation of the answer to the exact question you have asked dlilpyro, and it seems to me that I am justified in giving this answer here because no-one else with greater expertise has yet provided it. If the explanation as I give it is imperfect, perhaps it will stimulate a more expert response. If it is wanted, I can provide the details of my source, but I can’t do it now because I am away from home at the moment

The first thing you should know dlilpyro, is that in point of fact, the answer to your question is not actually a chemical one, it is a physical one. It is to do with a phenomenon called ‘ground state’. Within any given circumstances, the electrons in an atom can occupy different energy levels, but the lowest energy level they can occupy in that circumstance and to which they will tend, is called the ground state. But electrons can find lower energy ground states in some circumstances than they can in other circumstances and where possible, they will tend to the circumstance that offers the lowest ground state. So, the reason that atoms of oxygen tend to pair into molecules of O2 is because the electrons in the oxygen atom find a lower ground state as part of an O2 molecule than they do as part of a lone oxygen atom. But that is not the lowest ground state that they can find. The lowest ground state they can find is as part of a molecule of carbon dioxide. That is why atoms of carbon and oxygen tend to form molecules of carbon dioxide when circumstances permit.
 
Ken Natton said:
The lowest ground state they can find is as part of a molecule of carbon dioxide. That is why atoms of carbon and oxygen tend to form molecules of carbon dioxide when circumstances permit.

Up to this moment you were more or less right. There are other compounds, which are even more energetically favorable. Mg burns in carbon dioxide, leaving soot as one of products, so obviously solid MgO is preferred over gaseous CO2.
 
Thank you for your answers. I am thinking of making a fuel cell for a school project with water as the fuel. Could anyone comment on whether or not this would work and why not? I was thinking of using electrolysis to separate the H2 and the O and then use the subsequent O2 molecules as well as the H2 molecules for power as both are combustible.
 
Anyone?
 
It will work but you are first taking water apart and then putting it back together...
 
dlilpyro said:
Thank you for your answers. I am thinking of making a fuel cell for a school project with water as the fuel. Could anyone comment on whether or not this would work and why not? I was thinking of using electrolysis to separate the H2 and the O and then use the subsequent O2 molecules as well as the H2 molecules for power as both are combustible.

That is what many people have been trying to do. But apparently you put in more energy into separating H and O than what you get back by combustion.
 
  • #10
Water can be used as a source of fuel, however it is more like a battery than a fuel source since you have to split the water into oxygen and hydrogen, which takes more energy than the combustion of the two provide.
 

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