Free fall floating in a closed spaceship near a gravity source

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of conducting experiments inside a closed spaceship to determine the presence and characteristics of a nearby gravity source while in free fall. It explores theoretical implications of the equivalence principle and the role of hypothetical particles like gravitons in detecting gravitational effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that, according to the equivalence principle, it is generally not possible to determine if a gravity source is nearby while in free fall, although tiny effects of tidal gravity might be detectable with sensitive experiments over short periods.
  • Another participant questions whether there are any physical laws that would prevent the hypothetical graviton from carrying information about tidal gravity effects, to which a response indicates that the graviton would be part of the quantum mechanical calculations of gravity, expected to reproduce tidal effects.
  • A further contribution argues that due to sampling curvature at a single event, it is impossible to deduce the gravitational source without additional constraints, likening it to deducing a function from a single point. It mentions that under specific conditions, such as being in a spacetime dominated by a single mass, it may be possible to estimate the mass and location based on tidal effects, referencing historical methods used to discover outer planets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the ability to detect gravitational sources in free fall, with some asserting the limitations imposed by the equivalence principle and others discussing the potential for estimation under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the practical implications of these theories.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the assumptions of the equivalence principle, the nature of gravitational detection, and the conditions required for estimating gravitational sources, which are not fully resolved.

roineust
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Floating inside a closed spaceship, no windows, not knowing if I'm free falling near a gravity source or far away from any gravity source, are there any experiments that can be made, to determine if there is a gravity source near and if there is such an experiment, to determine the gravity source magnitude and direction?
 
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roineust said:
Floating inside a closed spaceship, no windows, not knowing if I'm free falling near a gravity source or far away from any gravity source, are there any experiments that can be made, to determine if there is a gravity source near and if there is such an experiment, to determine the gravity source magnitude and direction?
Essentially, no. This is one aspect of the so-called equivalence principle.

That said, there may be tiny effects of tidal gravity that a sufficiently sensitive experiment could detect over a sufficiently short period of time.
 
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The hypothetical particle of the graviton, is there a physical law, known already today, that even hypothetically, prevents it from carrying information about these tiny effects of tidal gravity?
 
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roineust said:
The hypothetical particle of the graviton, is there a physical law, known already today, that even hypothetically, prevents it from carrying information about these tiny effects of tidal gravity?
If that question makes sense, then the answer is no. The graviton would simply be part of the mechanism by which gravity is calculated quantum mechnically. Those calculations would be expected to reproduce the effects of tidal gravity.
 
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The answer is no in general, because you are only sampling curvature at one event, or along one worldline if you repeat the experiment. It's like me telling you that I'm thinking of a function ##f(x)## for which ##f(0)=3## and asking you to deduce ##f##. Can't be done, because there are infinitely many lines that pass through ##(0,3)##.

If you impose additional constraints, such as "I am in a spacetime dominated by a single spherically symmetric mass" it's possible to estimate the mass and location from the tidal effects @PeroK mentions and how they change over time. In a loose sense, that's how we discovered the outer planets - by looking at the orbits of planets we could see and estimating where an extra planet would have to be to account for the difference between the modeled and actual positions of the planets. Note that it took careful analysis of years of observational records to do it. It's a kind of closed box, but it was very large in the timelike direction.
 
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