Freezing @ 500 degrees centigrade

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the phenomenon of temperature and heat transfer in the thermosphere, particularly the claim that an animal would freeze at a temperature of 500 degrees centigrade due to the conditions present at high altitudes. The scope includes theoretical considerations of temperature, heat transfer mechanisms, and the implications of atmospheric conditions on living organisms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a textbook claim that at 500 degrees centigrade in the thermosphere, an animal would freeze rather than boil, prompting questions about the validity of this assertion.
  • Another participant challenges the idea, noting that the thermosphere is near space and suggests that freezing would not be the primary concern, as suffocation would occur first.
  • A different participant proposes that while gas molecules may have high temperatures, the vast solid angle of 3K space would lead to rapid cooling through radiation.
  • One participant provides a link to a Wikipedia article for further explanation, indicating a desire for additional context.
  • Another participant discusses the discrepancy between high temperatures in the thermosphere and the cold readings of thermometers, questioning how heat transfer occurs in such a sparse environment and suggesting that radiation plays a significant role in cooling at night.
  • The same participant also mentions that while air does not facilitate heat transfer by convection, the absence of sufficient gas molecules means that heat cannot be gained effectively, leading to confusion about the temperature readings.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of temperature in the thermosphere and the mechanisms of heat transfer, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the relationship between temperature, heat transfer, and atmospheric conditions, particularly the role of radiation versus convection in such a low-density environment.

miss photon
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i found this in a textbook.
at a high altitude the temperature of the atmosphere is 500 degrees centigrade. yet an animal there would freeze to death and not boil. why does this happen?
 
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Do you have a reference for this? That region of the atmosphere is called the "thermosphere", but I don't see why an animal would freeze there. By then you are basically in space, and what happens in space is a lot more complicated than saying you'd "freeze to death" (you'd suffocate first...).
 
I suppose that although the temperature of the few gas molecules flying around might be 500deg - you are facing a lot of solid angle of 3K space, so radiatively you woul dget pretty cold pretty quickly.
 
wik said:
The few particles of gas in this area can reach 2,500°C (4500°F) during the day. Even though the temperature is so high, one would not feel warm in the thermosphere, because it is so near vacuum that there is not enough contact with the few atoms of gas to transfer much heat. A normal thermometer would read significantly below 0°C.
That doesn't make any sense to me. You get cold by transferring heat, so while it is true that there is not enough air to gain heat by convection, you can't lose heat by convection either. So how do you (or that thermometer) get cold? Radiation? Well...
wik said:
temperatures increase with altitude due to absorption of highly energetic solar radiation by the small amount of residual oxygen still present. Temperatures are highly dependent on solar activity, and can rise to 2,000°C.
If the air gets hot by absorbing solar radiation, why wouldn't you? At night, though, you would certainly get cold by radiating heat (though we calculated that once here and found that you could stand it for quite a while - probably indefinitely with a little insulation).

A thermometer doesn't generate its own heat, but we do.
 
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