General Chemistry Pressure and Rate laws

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the kinetics of the decomposition of phosphine (PH3) at 950 K, specifically focusing on determining the rate constant for the reaction based on given pressure data over time. Participants explore various approaches to relate pressure changes to reaction order and rate laws.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the reaction order with respect to PH3 needs to be determined before calculating the rate constant.
  • Another participant suggests relating changes in total pressure to changes in the number of moles of PH3 to find the reaction order.
  • A participant presents an attempt at calculating the rate constant using the natural logarithm of pressures, but later realizes the approach may be incorrect without knowing the reaction order.
  • It is noted that the equation used for first-order reactions cannot be assumed valid for reactions of different orders, prompting a need to determine the order first.
  • One participant proposes a method of integrating the rate equations for various orders of reaction to find the rate constant and order, but expresses uncertainty about this method's validity.
  • Another participant corrects a previous suggestion, emphasizing that the data pertains to total pressure rather than the concentration of a single species.
  • There is acknowledgment of the need to convert total pressure data into partial pressures of PH3 to proceed with calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of determining the reaction order before calculating the rate constant. However, there are multiple competing views on the best approach to achieve this, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct method to apply.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions involved in their calculations, particularly regarding the relationship between total pressure and the partial pressures of reactants and products. The discussion highlights the complexity of integrating rate laws for different reaction orders.

ElectronicError
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Homework Statement


The kinetics of the decomposition of phosphine at 950 K
4PH3 (g) -> P4 (g) + 6H2 (g)
was studied by injecting PH3(g) into a reaction vessel and measuring the total pressure at constant volume.

P total (Torr) Time (s)
100 0
150 40
167 80
172 120

What is the rate constant of this reaction?

Homework Equations



PV = nRT
rate = k[PH3] ^n

The Attempt at a Solution



Do I need to find the reaction order with respect to PH3 before finding the rate constant? I am lost.
 
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Yes, you need to find the reaction order. But to do that, you need to relate the change in total pressure to the change in the number of mol/L of PH3. If at some time, t, there are some n moles of PH3 consumed, then what is the net change in the total number of moles of gas in the container?

Also, you've written the differential form of the n'th order rate law. Can you collect the terms, integrate it and write the expression for the concentration of PH3 as a function of time (and the initial concentration)?
 
Thanks for your help. This is what I have done so far, but it is still wrong.

ln[(PPH3)t / (PPH3)o] = -kt

Ptotal = PPH3 + PP4 + PH2

PPH3 = Po - PP4
PH2 = 6PP4

Ptotal = (Po - PP4) + 6PP4 + PP4
Ptotal= Po + 6PP4
PP4 = (Ptotal - Po) / 6

PPH3 = Po -PP4 = Po - [(Ptotal-Po) / 6]

Po = 100 torr

Pt= 100 - [(150-100) / 6] = 91.666 torr

ln0.91666 = -k * 40s
k = 0.0022

The correct answer is k=0.027 s-1
 
ElectronicError said:
Thanks for your help. This is what I have done so far, but it is still wrong.

ln[(PPH3)t / (PPH3)o] = -kt
This is only true for n=1, and is not the correct equation for n != 1. You need to figure out the order of the reaction rate; you can't assume it is 1.

For n not 1, you have:

dA/dt = -kA^n \implies A^{-n}dA = -kdt \implies A^{1-n} - A_0^{1-n} = -k(t - t_0)

Ptotal = PPH3 + PP4 + PH2

PPH3 = Po - PP4
PH2 = 6PP4

Ptotal = (Po - PP4) + 6PP4 + PP4
Ptotal= Po + 6PP4
PP4 = (Ptotal - Po) / 6

PPH3 = Po -PP4 = Po - [(Ptotal-Po) / 6]
Not sure I follow what you're doing here. For every 4 moles of PH3 consumed there are 7 moles of products produced, resulting in a net change of +3 moles (for every 4 moles of PH3 consumed). So the decrease in partial pressure of PH3 is 4/3 of the increase in total pressure over any interval of time.

So, for instance, during the first 40s, since the p(tot) increases by 50 torr, p(PH3) must decrease by 50*4/3 torr. Using this method, you can translate the table for p(tot) into a similar table for p(PH3).

Write down the values in this new table and plug them into the general equation for the n'th order rate law (above) to find k and n.

Note that the above rate equation only applies if n is not 1. It is actually prudent to first check if n=1 works.

PS: I just checked. It is first order; so you can indeed use the rate equation you used in post #3, only you need to use it on the new table of numbers.
 
Last edited:
I think this problem can be done by substituting the pressure and time variables in the concentration-rate constant equations for various ordered reaction The equation are founsd as :

r = -d[A]/dt
r = k[A]^n n - order of reaction.

equating

kdt = d[A]/[A]^n. Integrate (with limits c0 - c initial and final concentration, and 0 - t) to find equation for 1st, 2nd, 3rd... order reactions.

Substitute the given data in equations 1 by 1 till constant value of k for all pair of pressure values is obtained. This constant value gives the real k and n the order.

Im not surwe of this method but i have seen similar problems that can be done this way.
 
dialmformartian said:
Substitute the given data in equations 1 by 1 till constant value of k for all pair of pressure values is obtained. This constant value gives the real k and n the order.
This last bit is incorrect.

The given data does not refer to the concentration (or partial pressure) of one species - it is the total pressure in the vessel.
 
yeah u r right the data have to be converted into partial pressure of PH3 that would make my suggestion same as post #4. Sorry for the repetition.
 

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