General questions about electromagnetism.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around basic concepts of electromagnetism, particularly focusing on resistance, heat dissipation in conducting wires, and the relationship between wire dimensions and current. Participants explore theoretical aspects and practical implications without reaching definitive conclusions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that resistance measures obstruction in conducting materials, suggesting that atomic properties lead to collisions that generate energy.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between the dimensions of a conducting wire and its heat dissipation capabilities, noting that heat dissipation depends on surface area and environmental factors.
  • One participant questions whether doubling the external area of a wire would allow it to dissipate twice the amount of heat, with responses indicating that this may depend on the environment.
  • There is a query about the minimum current necessary to melt a wire with twice the surface area, with suggestions that it may not simply be double the current due to changes in power and conductance.
  • Another participant introduces a relationship involving power per unit length and cross-sectional area, suggesting that the current required scales with the radius of the wire.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the proportionality of current to radius and the implications of changing wire dimensions on heat generation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the relationship between wire dimensions, current, and heat dissipation. No consensus is reached regarding the exact implications of these relationships, and multiple competing models are presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about environmental conditions affecting heat dissipation and the need for further clarification on the mathematical relationships discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electromagnetism, electrical engineering, or materials science, particularly in relation to heat management in conductive materials.

V0ODO0CH1LD
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I was wondering about some basic concepts of electromagnetism.

Firstly, resistance is kind of like the measure of obstruction in a conducting material; right? So maybe the atomic properties of the conducting material are such that the current of electrons gets obstructed and ends up colliding with stuff in the way and as a result it generates all sorts of forms of energy. Is that right?

Something else I was wondering is how does the dimensions of a conducting wire relate to how much heat it can dissipate. Before it starts melting, of course. I tried searching for it but I didn't have any luck. I found an article on joule heating which talks about the amount of heat generated by a certain current going through a conductor with a certain resistivity (P = RI2). I don't even know if what I understood from the article is correct.

Anyway, if I double the external area of a piece of conducting wire. Will it be able to dissipate twice the amount of heat?
 
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V0ODO0CH1LD said:
Firstly, resistance is kind of like the measure of obstruction in a conducting material; right? So maybe the atomic properties of the conducting material are such that the current of electrons gets obstructed and ends up colliding with stuff in the way and as a result it generates all sorts of forms of energy. Is that right?
Right.

Something else I was wondering is how does the dimensions of a conducting wire relate to how much heat it can dissipate. Before it starts melting, of course.
Usually, heat is dissipated via the surface of a resistor, and it depends on the surface (is it in air? maybe even air flow? Water-cooled? ...).

I found an article on joule heating which talks about the amount of heat generated by a certain current going through a conductor with a certain resistivity (P = RI2).
That is the power which heats the resistor.

Anyway, if I double the external area of a piece of conducting wire. Will it be able to dissipate twice the amount of heat?
Maybe. Depends on the environment.
 
mfb said:
Maybe. Depends on the environment.

A conducting wire will melt when the heat generated by the current is bigger than the heat that can be dissipated by the surface of the wire, right? At least it makes sense..

My question is if something like a 1A current is the least necessary so that a wire of a certain material will start to melt when it goes through it. What would be the least amount of current necessary to melt a wire of twice the surface area? Twice the current?
 
V0ODO0CH1LD said:
What would be the least amount of current necessary to melt a wire of twice the surface area? Twice the current?
You'd want twice the power per unit length, but if it has twice the surface then presumably it has 4 times the cross section, so 4 times the conductance. P = I2R ~ I2/r2; As ~ r; so P~As implies I2~r3.
 
haruspex said:
You'd want twice the power per unit length, but if it has twice the surface then presumably it has 4 times the cross section, so 4 times the conductance. P = I2R ~ I2/r2; As ~ r; so P~As implies I2~r3.

So if I make the wire twice as long I could have twice the amount of power going through it. But what is "r" in your post? Are you saying that I2R is proportional to I2/r2? And that the surface area is proportional to r? How do you get that I2 is proportional to r3? And is r the radius of the wire?
 
If you want to use a certain current to melt a wire, use a thin wire. Its resistance will help to generate more heat, and it has a smaller surface at the same time.

r is the radius of the wire.
I2 ~ r3 means that you need to increase current by a factor of 8 if you increase the radius by a factor of 4 (as 82 = 43).
 

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