Geometrical meaning of Curl(Gradient(T))=0

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the geometrical meaning of the equation ##\nabla\times\nabla T=0##, focusing on the implications of the curl of the gradient of a scalar field T in various contexts, including theoretical and conceptual interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the gradient of T indicates the direction of maximum increase of T, while the curl provides information about how T curls around a point.
  • One participant proposes that for a scalar field T defined in the x-y plane, the curves of constant T are perpendicular to the gradient vectors, which do not exhibit a circulatory pattern in a small neighborhood around any point.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of conservative fields, arguing that since the force field derived from the gradient of T is conservative, any closed path results in no change in potential, implying that the curl must be zero.
  • A different viewpoint mentions the relationship between the gradient of a magnitude and flux through an infinitesimal closed area, although the participant expresses skepticism about the use of infinitesimals as a serious mathematical concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple interpretations of the geometrical meaning of the equation, with no consensus reached on a single explanation. Various models and perspectives are discussed without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments depend on specific definitions of terms like "conservative fields" and "circulatory paths," which may not be universally accepted. The discussion also touches on the use of infinitesimals, which remains a contentious topic among participants.

Titan97
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What is the geometrical meaning of ##\nabla\times\nabla T=0##?

The gradient of T(x,y,z) gives the direction of maximum increase of T.
The Curl gives information about how much T curls around a given point.

So the equation says "gradient of T at a point P does not Curl around P.
To know about how much T curls around a particular point, I need to know about the direction of T on other points around the required point.
 
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Suppose that ## T = T(x,y) ##. Then the equations ## T(x,y) = const ## will describe curves of constant ## T ## in the ##x##-##y## plane. At any point on a given curve, ## \nabla T ## will then be perpendicular to that curve. Imagine the whole vector field of the ## \nabla T ##'s everywhere. Within a small neighborhood around any given point, these vectors will not have a "circulatory" pattern. That is, if the ## \nabla T ## vectors represented fluid velocities, then around any point, a small paddle wheel placed in the fluid would not rotate. That is the geometric meaning of ## \nabla \times \nabla T = 0 ##.
 
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The gradient of a magnitude is the flux through and infinitesimal closed 3D area divided by this area. I don´t thik infinitesimals as a serious mathematical concept, but you can translate to differentiation formal way.
 
I find it helpful to think about conservative fields here. A force field grad T is a conservative field because it is derived from a scalar potential T. Now any circulatory path through a conservative field results in no change in potential, since it starts and ends at the same point. Hence curl of the force field must be zero, intuitively. You could prove that using Stokes Theorem: 0 = integral of gradT.dr along a circulatory path = surface integral of curl (gradT) .dS. Can only happen for all possible closed paths if curl(gradT) =0
 

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