Auto/Motor Get a 1945 Harley running again

[Mark44]

TL;DR Summary

I bought a 1945 HD basket case, and am working on putting it back together

My current DIY project is the 1945 Harley-Davidson UL. The engine is a "side valve" AKA flathead, similar to the ones in older lawnmowers. Pretty low-tech, with manual advance points ignition. Not shown in the pictures are the engine, which is missing a lot of parts, but does include a bunch of parts that are too far gone to use or aren't for this bike.
The transmission appears to be in good shape, but I have it all apart for cleaning and replacement of any parts that should be swapped out. The bike came with both wheels and new tires, but was missing the brakes and associated linkages, as well as the clutch, primary chain and drive chain, generator, all of the wiring and control cables, fuel lines, oil lines, and many more parts.

The front wheel and fender aren't shown, but I have them. The fender has the same paint scheme.

The engine isn't shown. A friend of mine who just retired from a machinist job and who also has a similar bike of slightly older vintage is helping me get the engine back together. I'm hoping that this thing will be running in 6 months, but it could possibly take a fair amount longer. Although the bike is missing a lot of parts, repop parts are relatively easy to find -- all you need is $.

 

[berkeman]

Wow, do you end up having to fabricate some of your own parts though? Fun project.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Very interesting. Was that originally an army bike? I assume a suicide clutch and the shifter up on the side of the tank? Did it have crash bars on it? Keep the pix coming!

 

[Mark44]

Wow, do you end up having to fabricate some of your own parts though?

Not really, although I'm going to make a small bracket that the horn attaches to.

Very interesting. Was that originally an army bike?

I don't believe so, but I suppose it could have been. Most of the Harleys that were used by the Army and other services were WLA models, with a 45 cu. in. flathead engine.

I assume a suicide clutch and the shifter up on the side of the tank?

I'll be running a foot clutch and hand shift. There's a common misconception about foot clutches, that they're all "suicide clutches." Not so. A suicide clutch is one that works like a car clutch - press into disengage, let out to engage. What came on this bike, and what I'll be using is a rocker clutch that will stay in either position, unlike a so-called "suicide clutch." My other old bike, a '48 Panhead, came with a suicide clutch, but I swapped it out for a rocker clutch.

Did it have crash bars on it? Keep the pix coming!

No crash bars, but my other old bike has engine crash bars, and the WL I just sold had crash bars front and rear. I will definitely keep the pix coming!

In the meantime, here's my '48. You can see the rocker clutch with its two pedals, and you can also see the shifter on the side of the tank. Once I get the '45 UL running I'll take this one apart and refresh the engine and transmission.

My '46 WL, which I just sold. The '45 UL of this thread will look a lot like this one, but with a 74 cu. in. engine instead of 45 cu. in., and with a 4-speed trans instead of a 3-speed.

 

[berkeman]

Wow, nice work Mark!

 

[Mark44]

I've been working on this bike daily, but not anything interesting enough to show in pictures. When I get the transmission back together and in place, I'll post some more pictures. And when we get the engine bottom end buttoned up, I'll post some of that, as well.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Heck I want to see guts!

 

[Mark44]

Heck I want to see guts!

I'll take some pix of the "guts" tomorrow...

 

[Mark44]

By popular demand (i.e., @Averagesupernova), here are a couple pix of the "guts."
Bottom left: left engine case
Bottom right: right engine case, showing the empty cam chest. This engine has four cams, one for each valve.
Rear: cam chest cover
My machinist friend is fitting new races into the case halves and is working on truing the flywheels in preparation for installing the flywheel assembly into the cases.

Most of the transmission, with the case on the left. The stack of gears to the right is the countershaft. The mainshaft is elsewhere but some of its gears are shown here and there. The transmission is a four-speed with what is called a jockey top (not shown). The gear shift is on the left side of the tank (you shift with your hand, not your foot -- the clutch is operated by a foot pedal).

 

[MidgetDwarf]

Be prepared to have many babes!

 

[Mark44]

Be prepared to have many babes!

My wife wouldn't like that!
At any rate, when I'm out on one of the old bikes and stop off for something, people will often come up to get a closer look or take a picture. Several people have told me that their dad had one like this.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Several people have told me that their dad had one like this.

I would be one of those.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

My wife wouldn't like that!
At any rate, when I'm out on one of the old bikes and stop off for something, people will often come up to get a closer look or take a picture. Several people have told me that their dad had one like this.

The flesh is weak!

Thats amazing that you are into bikes. my interest lies on the opposite side (cars). Specifically, Low Riders.
I never learned to ride a motorcycle, but I was thinking of taking it up when I move to the boonies in Texas.

 

[Mark44]

my interest lies on the opposite side (cars).

I've always liked cars, as well. Over my life I've had 29 of them, plus 8 motorcycles.
I wish I had even one of the old cars I had in the 60's and early 70's - '48 Ford Tudor, '49 Ford Tudor, '40 Ford Sedan Delivery, '41 Chev Sedan Delivery, '56 Ford Sedan Delivery, '60 Chev Bel Air. The most I paid for any of these was $200.
My most recent "hot rod" is an '02 Porsche 911 Carrera, way more hi tech than my old bikes.

 

[Mark44]

I would be one of those.

A guy and his son came up to me one time when I was on the '48 Panhead (1st picture in post #4), and had stopped off at a small store to get a cold drink. The guy asked, "Is that a Victory?"
I said, "No, man, you're off by about 50 years!"
Victory is a defunct motorcycle manufacturer, a subsidiary of Polaris Industries, that produced motorcycles between 1998 and 2017.
Another guy at the same place but a different day, nailed it though. He knew what he was looking at.

 

[berkeman]

I never learned to ride a motorcycle, but I was thinking of taking it up when I move to the boonies in Texas.

A good way to get an introduction to riding (and how to stay as safe as you can on the street) is by taking a Motorcycle Safety Foundation class. The Basic RiderCourse version does not require that you already have a license, and they provide the (small) learning bikes for you to ride. You can enter the zip code for where you are planning on going to see where the local classes are held.

https://www.msf-usa.org/

 

[Mark44]

I'm still working on this bike, but it's one step forward, and two steps back. I thought I would be able to use the flywheels that came with the bike, but it turns out that they've been apart too many times, causing the tapers that the pinion and sprocket shafts go it to be too large. As a result, the flywheels can't be trued. When I get further along in the project and start actually putting the motor back together, I'll post some more pix.

 

[dlgoff]

but it turns out that they've been apart too many times, causing the tapers that the pinion and sprocket shafts go it to be too large.

Is the shaft keyed. Just curious. If so, could a thicker/wider key be used?

 

[Tom.G]

And there is always plasma spraying to build up the male part . ()

 

[Mark44]

Is the shaft keyed. Just curious. If so, could a thicker/wider key be used?

Both shafts and the crankpin are keyed, but the problem is that the shafts won't sit in their tapers straight when torqued down.

And there is always plasma spraying to build up the male part . ()

That might be a possibiity, but after being built up, the tapers would have to be machined true, and it might be difficult to find a machinist with the ability and the tooling to do that. In any case, the wheels have not been treated kindly during their lives, and have been whacked on with steel hammers, not lead or brass hammers, which are the required tools. Flywheels like that are prone to cracking, or so I'm told.

 

[Mark44]

Things are moving along, albeit slowly. The new flywheel assembly arrived about a week ago, and we're getting close to having the bottom end buttoned up. Once that is done, then I can move ahead with installing the pistons and cylinders and heads, and then it will be a nearly complete engine. I'll be posting more pictures shortly, as we start making more progress with the build.

Some of you might not ever have seen a flathead (AKA sidevalve) engine, so I've included a couple pictures. The valves are lapped and installed, and the valve covers are in place.

Here's a pic of the top of the rear cylinder. The front cylinder is more-or-less the mirror image of the rear cylinder. The intake port is at the bottom of the image, and the exhaust part is on the back side, out of view. After the cylinders are installed, the heads will go on. The heads are just chunks of aluminum, with no moving parts. The terminology "sidevalve" arose because the valves are to the side of the combustion chamber, as opposed to being above it, as in overhead valve (OHV) engines. Flatheads are very low-tech.

This pic shows the exhaust port and the valve covers, the shiny tubes. The lower parts of the valve covers will be screwed into the tappet blocks that are attached to the right-side engine case. These valve covers are new and are cadmium plated.

 

[256bits]

Are you putting the same pistons in?
Any wear in the cylinders?
It looks like you honed them already.
what's the wear in time for these engines?

 

[Mark44]

Are you putting the same pistons in?
Any wear in the cylinders?

The cylinders showed some wear, but still had a lot of meat on them. The old pistons weren't worth saving, so they are new and .030" oversize. The cylinders were honed to accept the new pistons, with a bit of extra room to allow for expansion. The guy that worked on the cylinders said that they were a very hard ductile iron, and said he had to spend an entire day working on them.

It looks like you honed them already.
what's the wear in time for these engines?

About 300 miles or so, starting with a few short startups just to get the engine up to temperature. I'll retighten the cylinder nuts and head bolts a few times, and then after a few of these heat cycles, I'll take the bike out for short rides at no more than 30 - 35 mph. At about 300 miles I'll change the oil, and the engine should be fully broken in.

 

[Mark44]

Things are moving along with the bottom end nearly complete. Here's a pic of the cam chest with its four cams, which are behind the cam gears (the four gray ones to the left). The cams and gears have to be installed in a certain position relative to each other and to the pinion gear, the small gear below the four cam gears.
---------------Rear exh. ------------Rear intake --------- Front intake ---Front exh.-----

Here's a shot of the right side of the engine, with the cam chest cover in place. It's not on for good just yet -- I'm checking the endplay on the cam gears, which can be adjusted by adding or removing shims.

Here's how the engine looks at the moment. The scavenge pump (at bottom of case) is installed and correctly timed. Its main function is to return oil from the engine sump back to the oil tank, but it also serves to let air in and out of the crankcase as the pistons go up and down. For this latter reason, it has to be installed with its gear drive in the proper relation to the pinion gear.
The tappet blocks and tappets are installed. They are just above the upper curve of the cam chest. The tappets ride on the cams, causing the intake and exhaust valves to open and close. When the generator is installed (it goes in the hole at the right, I can button up the cam chest, and install the motor in the bike frame. Then I'll be able to install the cylinders and pistons and heads, and put on the intake manifold and carb.
Tappet ---------Tappet -------------------------Tappet ---------Tappet

 

[BigDon]

My dear ol Dad was a bike enthusiast. And after he recovered from a terrible accident he went with *big* bikes. According to him that way he could reciprocate the favor if somebody hit him head on again.

The poster who mentioned riding in rural Texas, I have to warn you. If you're waaay out in the dingweeds on a good freeway system and you see an oncoming tractor-trailer rig coming the other direction you should immediately go over to the far right and start slowing down. If not, a big rig going 80 to 100 mph passing you close aboard in the opposite direction has enough air draw to make bikes the size of a KZ1000 spin 180 degrees, even at comparable speeds.

One best be a competent rider when you get a "think fast" moment like that.

Happen to my Dad on the Northern Route freeway systems. (Through Idaho and the Dakotas)

 

[Mark44]

If you're waaay out in the dingweeds on a good freeway system and you see an oncoming tractor-trailer rig coming the other direction you should immediately go over to the far right and start slowing down.

I interpret "good freeway system" to mean one with separated roadways with a median in between. On such highways, a semi coming the other direction won't blow you off the road. If you mean an ordinary highway with a a single lane in each direction, then, yes, the semi will be pushing enough air to strongly affect a motorcycle rider. Even passing a semi at highway speeds of 75 or 80 mph, you can feel a strong sideway push as you go around the tractor.

 

[BigDon]

Have you ever ridden the northern truck route? Two lanes each way with a gravel belt to divide you. Straight, flat and under supervised. My Dad rode his bike there for that very reason. He lived in the Eugene/Roseburg area of Oregon.

Wouldn't have mentioned it unless I experienced it myself.

 

[BigDon]

Oh, I apologize if you consider this a highjacking.

Such wasn't my intent.

 

[Mark44]

Back on-topic, I've hit a small snag. After I set the engine crankcase in the frame, I was all set to bolt it in, and start installing the generator, pistons, cylinders and heads, and intake manifold and carb. As it turned out, the engine mounts didn't align with the frame mounting holes. With the help of my machinist friend, we determined that the frame is a bit tweaked, so I've dropped the frame off with a guy who specializes in straightening motorcycle frames, and has been doing this for many years. Fortunately for me, the guy's shop isn't too far away, about 60 miles. There aren't many who do this kind of work, so he gets frames sent to him from as far away as the East Coast of the US.

In the meantime I can finish putting the transmission back together, after replacing all the worn parts. I'm hoping the frame guy will be done with it in a week or two.

 

[dlgoff]

I'm hoping the frame guy will be done with it in a week or two.

Can't wait for an update. Love this thread.

 

[Mark44]

Can't wait for an update. Love this thread.

OK, you asked for it! Here's the engine bottom-end sitting in the frame, before I discovered that I couldn't get it bolted in. In the meantime, I've stripped the frame down completely, taking off the wheels, complete fork assembly, and any other pieces that were on the frame.
I took it down to the frame guy yesterday, and am hoping I'll be able to pick it up within a week or 10 days.

Quite a contrast between the two vehicles in the picture. The motorcycle engine is about as low-tech as you can get, flathead engine comparable to those in older lawn mowers, manual spark advance, kick-start only, with a very simple carburetor. Just behind it, double overhead cams, four valves per cylinder, variable valve timing, and fuel injection.

 

[dlgoff]

In the meantime, I've stripped the frame down completely, taking of the wheels, complete fork assembly, and any other pieces that were on the frame.

You're a trooper. Thanks for the photo. Could be a good photo in my thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/beauty-of-old-electrical-and-measuring-things-etc.755959/, as it's a beauty.

 

[berkeman]

Quite a contrast between the two vehicles in the picture

Wow, nice car!

 

[Mark44]

Wow, nice car!

It was a Halloween present to myself. It's a 2002 model, so it wasn't all that expensive -- less than the cost of many new cars.

 

[Mark44]

I got the frame back in a reasonable amount of time (9 days), and have started putting things back together. While the frame guy was working on the frame, I painted the forks where paint was needed. When I got the bare frame back, I spent some time tidying up the paint on it, sanding down places where there were chips, priming the bare spots, and rattle-canning most of the frame. My work came out pretty well, with no discernible runs.

The frame and forks are now back together, the wheels are back on, and the motor is bolted in. Next steps are to install the pistons, slip on the cylinders, and bolt on the heads.

Here are a couple pix of how the '45 looks at the moment.

x

 

[arydberg]

Back in 1959 or so i paid 35$ for an 1948 Indial chief. It was very sinilar with foot clutch and 3 speeds on a hand shift. I took apart the flywheels and had to get a machienist to re assemble them. They are 2 cast iron wheels with a tapered pin mounted way off center to profide trhe stroke. Needs to be put in a lathe and checked with a dial indicator until true. Keys here are usless. There are two other pins that mount in the center of each flywheel. It also had a manual twist grip that controlled the spark advance with the other being the throttle.

Later a friend rebuilt it and left out a shim for the oil pump. I showed up to collect it and it would not staert. We put it on a pickup truck, drove the local ferry across Long Island sound. Pushed the bike abord and fixed it on the trip. Was running fine when we landed.

 

[Mark44]

Back in 1959 or so i paid 35$ for an 1948 Indial chief. It was very sinilar with foot clutch and 3 speeds on a hand shift.

Yep, my '45 is very similar, with about the only differences being that my transmission is 4 speeds, and my hand shift and foot clutch are on the left side, rather than on the right side as on your Chief. Both engines are flatheads (or sidevalves) and both have a displacement of 74 cu. in.

I took apart the flywheels and had to get a machienist to re assemble them. They are 2 cast iron wheels with a tapered pin mounted way off center to profide trhe stroke. Needs to be put in a lathe and checked with a dial indicator until true. Keys here are usless. There are two other pins that mount in the center of each flywheel.

Yep, same with me. My original flywheels had been taken apart too many times, and couldn't be trued, so I wound up having to buy a set of new flywheels that are trued and balanced. Fortunately I have a friend who is a skilled machinist who did the work of lapping the races and checking the tolerances for me. I'd be dead in the water without his help.

The innards of my engine have two new flywheels, new sprocket shaft (drive side), new pinion shaft (cam chest side), and new crank pin, plus a set of new cams.

It also had a manual twist grip that controlled the spark advance with the other being the throttle.

Yep, same with this bike. There are two twist grips, one for the throttle, and one to advance or retard the spark timing.

I'm making good progress on the bike, and will include some pictures in a few days of the complete engine in place.

 

[Mark44]

It's a slow process, but I'm making some progress. In the last month I had the frame straightened, and have installed the pistons, cylinders, heads, circuit breaker (which some mistakenly call the distributor), intake manifold, plus the feed oil pump. The feed oil pump sends oil to the engine internals, and another pump, the scavenge or return pump, sends the oil back to the oil tank. Except for the carburetor and torqueing the head bolts, the engine is pretty much done.

Another view of the whole bike as it currently sits.

I should get the remaining parts I need for the transmission, and then I can install the oil tank, exhaust pipes, and start wiring the bike. I'm hoping to get this thing running sometime in July.

 

[arydberg]

There was one more funny thing about the Chief. It had only 2 cams. One for intake and exhaust on one cylinder and one for intake and exhaust on the second cylinder. As each cam rotated its first raised the intake then later it operated the exhaust.

How about the haley

 

[Mark44]

How about the haley

The '45 has four cams, one for each valve. I posted a picture of the cam chest in post #24, showing the cam gears (the cams are behind the cam gears).

My other three bikes have OHV engines. The '48 "panhead" has a single cam, as does my '91 with its Evo engine. My '07 Dyna has two cams, each with a lobe for exhaust and and intake.

 

[Mark44]

Stay tuned -- I've been making some progress and will be posting some more pictures soon. At the moment I'm working on getting the wiring installed. I have the transmission mostly back together and will be installing it forthwith.

 

[Mark44]

Here you go, for the few people who are interested. Transmission is back together, after being completely rebuilt, and the wiring is about 80-90% done. Remaining tasks are:
install the oil tank and battery (battery sits inside the horseshoe-shaped oil tank)

• install the carb
• connect the left and right spirals to the spark timer and carburetor, respectively (both handgrips are controls on these old bikes)
• finish wiring the dash
• install the speedo
• hook up the oil lines
• bolt on the tanks and their fuel lines
• connect the gear shift and clutch rod
• install the exhaust system
• install the clutch pedal
• install the footboards
• mount the outer primary tin
• put the seat back on
• install the drive chain and adjust its tension
• fill the oil tank and transmission

Compared to all the work I've done, this is a pretty short list. Today is July 27; with any luck, the bike will be ready to fire up before the beginning of August!

Here's the left side, with the primary chain and clutch in place. Still need to install the drive chain and chain guard.

 

[dlgoff]

Here you go, for the few people who are interested. Transmission is back together, after being completely rebuilt, and the wiring is about 80-90% done. Remaining tasks are:
install the oil tank and battery (battery sits inside the horseshoe-shaped oil tank)

• install the carb
• connect the left and right spirals to the spark timer and carburetor, respectively (both handgrips are controls on these old bikes)
• finish wiring the dash
• install the speedo
• hook up the oil lines
• bolt on the tanks and their fuel lines
• connect the gear shift and clutch rod
• install the exhaust system
• install the clutch pedal
• install the footboards
• mount the outer primary tin
• put the seat back on
• install the drive chain and adjust its tension
• fill the oil tank and transmission

Compared to all the work I've done, this is a pretty short list. Today is July 27; with any luck, the bike will be ready to fire up before the beginning of August!
View attachment 286655
Here's the left side, with the primary chain and clutch in place. Still need to install the drive chain and chain guard.
View attachment 286656

It's looking really nice.

 

[Mark44]

Here's the bike as of today. Oil tank is installed and plumbed, primary chain and clutch are installed and adjusted, and the drive chain is installed but not yet adjusted. The tanks are on for fitment purposes only, and the seat is just sitting there, not bolted in. I'll take both off to finish up the wiring. After I get the pipes installed, most of the rest is just small stuff.

I'll be out of town on two separate trips for much of the rest of August, so I probably won't get this running until September some time.

 

[berkeman]

Beautiful. Nice work, Mark.

 

[Mark44]

I probably won't get this running until September some time.

Well, that didn't happen just yet, but I'm really close to starting it up, so I thought I'd post an update. When I take it off the lift table, I'll post a pic or two of the bike in its finished state.
The only things I still need to do are:
Connect one gas line
Fill the transmission and engine oil tank (both use the same weight of motor oil)
Install the spark plugs and plug wires
Time the ignition
When these are done, it should start right up! (Fingers crossed!)

 

[Mark44]

It's been about 15 months since I started working on the '45 Harley, but I finally have it running! I had some problems with a brand-new oil feed pump that wasn't making pressure, due to a defect in its manufacture and machining. I was able to refurbish an old one I had, and the engine is now putting out about 20 PSI, plenty for this old machine.
I'm still breaking in the engine, just starting it and letting it run until it gets warm, then shutting down. A few more heat cycles, and getting the timing (points ignition) and carb dialed in, and I'll take it for some short rides, like up and down my street.
I don't have any more recent pictures, but once I take it outside, I'll take a couple and post them here.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I'm still breaking in the engine, just starting it and letting it run until it gets warm, then shutting down.

Is there a reason you are doing it this way? Any break-in I've done, which is limited to liquid cooled, I let it run a little above idle for about 20 minutes to get the cam and lifters worn in. After that I drive it alternating between moderate acceleration and backing off the throttle to build intake manifold vacuum. This helps draw up oil into the rings and the acceleration helps get the rings worn in together with the cylinder walls. I use a break-in oil for this. A little oil consumption in the first 100 miles. Then drops off to basically nothing. Change the oil out and all is well.

 

[Mark44]

Any break-in I've done, which is limited to liquid cooled, I let it run a little above idle for about 20 minutes to get the cam and lifters worn in.

This engine is air-cooled, which you probably knew, so there's more of a danger in overheating unless the bike is moving or without a fan blowing air on it. Pretty much everything is new - new pistons and rings in freshly honed cylinders, new cams (four of them!) and their gears and cam bushings, pinion and sprocket bearings and races. In addition, I wasn't sure I was getting oil pressure at first, but that's now squared away. I have three other running bikes, so I can take my time breaking this one in. Plus, the weather hasn't really warmed up all that much here in the Pacific Northwet -- we had a very nice day a week or so ago, 74 deg., but it has been very cool to the point of snow/sleet/hail more recently.

I expect to take it out for a spin within a couple of days...

 

[berkeman]

I expect to take it out for a spin within a couple of days...

This is how Mark takes his restored bikes out on a "spin"...