The discussion revolves around the incident of an 18-year-old who had her stomach removed after consuming a cocktail containing liquid nitrogen. Participants explore the implications of using liquid nitrogen in food and drink, the responsibilities of bartenders, and the medical consequences of such consumption.
Participants generally disagree on the safety and appropriateness of using liquid nitrogen in drinks. While some advocate for its responsible use, others call for stricter regulations or outright bans. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the balance between culinary innovation and consumer safety.
Participants note the lack of consensus on the safety of liquid nitrogen in food and drink, the need for proper training for those handling it, and the potential for serious medical consequences if not used correctly. There are also references to varying opinions on the culpability of the teenager versus the bartender.
Monique said:It is irresponsible that people are putting dangerous compounds into food, I can't believe that its being tolerated by authorities. Seriously, who in the right state of mind would serve someone a drink with liquid nitrogen in it?
EternityMech said:An 18-year-old teenager has had to have her stomach removed in an emergency operation after drinking a cocktail containing liquid nitrogen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19878511
Question? How does she eat food without a stomach? Carry a bag?
Patients with advanced stomach cancer may have to have their stomachs removed. There is a surgical procedure (a jejunostomy) that implants a feeding tube into the beginning of the small intestine. Specially prepared liquids are used to feed the patient. Such patients can live for years this way. Digestion starts in the mouth and continues in the stomach. However, absorbing all the nutrients that you need takes place in the small and large intestine (NOT in the stomach). You can live without your stomach but not without your small intestine.
Absolutely agree. It's the new molecular gastronomy fad of using liquid nitrogen that probably gave some idiot the idea. But why put it in a drink? That has to be criminally negligent at best.Monique said:It is irresponsible that people are putting dangerous compounds into food, I can't believe that its being tolerated by authorities. Seriously, who in the right state of mind would serve someone a drink with liquid nitrogen in it?
axemaster said:So blame the barkeeper for being an idiot, and the girl for not being prudent enough to glance at the glass before she started chugging it. But don't go condemning the practice as a whole.
It's stupid to do it. Liquid nitrogen used by someone trained in using it in a kitchen to flash freeze food is one thing. Using it for entertainment for immediate consumption is dangerous and should not be allowed.axemaster said:But don't go condemning the practice as a whole.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/08/mp-ban-liquid-nitrogen-drinksAn MP has led calls for a ban on drinks made with liquid nitrogen after surgeons removed the stomach of one of his teenage constituents who drank a cocktail made with the ingredient.
The idea of such cocktails is that they have enough in them to maintain the frothing vapour effect for a while. You're not meant to drink it until it's completely stopped but in a negligent bar such as this one customers have the drink for long enough to drink it before it's all gone.axemaster said:I suspect the drink had a extremely large amount of LN2 in it. Otherwise I can't imagine how any LN2 would even reach the stomach, much less be able to damage it.
axemaster said:This discussion is a bit over the top. It's perfectly safe to put LN2 in a drink - as long as you don't add too much. LN2 tends to form a vapor layer preventing it from damaging something hot like flesh, until the flesh cools down enough to slow the boiling.
I suspect the drink had a extremely large amount of LN2 in it. Otherwise I can't imagine how any LN2 would even reach the stomach, much less be able to damage it.
So blame the barkeeper for being an idiot, and the girl for not being prudent enough to glance at the glass before she started chugging it. But don't go condemning the practice as a whole.
"A guest should never be served a drink where the nitrogen still is in liquid form, as this means it will turn into gas inside the person's body," he said. "This is akin to trying to consume an open flame from a lit Blazer cocktail."
"It's a great way to kill tissue instantaneously," said Dr. Corey Slovis, chairman of emergency medicine at Vanderbilt Medical Center in Nashville, Tenn.
"I imagine what happened was it completely devitalized the tissues and froze it to the point where the gastric acid perforated the stomach," said Slovis, who did not treat Scanlan. "It would not be flexible tissue. It would be hard frozen."
The effect can be like an explosion in the stomach. "It's not safe to ingest," he said. "Liquid nitrogen basically causes pressure to build up as it turns into a gas and can lead to perforation. ...Ultimately it can be deadly."
Eh? I hadn't seen anything suggesting she was aware that she was served anything more dangerous than alcohol.WannabeNewton said:How is the idiotic girl who drank it knowingly not getting any blame here? I hardly find that fair.
Hurkyl said:Eh? I hadn't seen anything suggesting she was aware that she was served anything more dangerous than alcohol.
Mentallic said:She was dared into it, and while she clearly didn't know the possible consequences of drinking it, she knew what she was drinking.
Yep. This practice was a lawsuit waiting to happen.Evo said:But why put it in a drink? That has to be criminally negligent at best.
This is particularly so when the customers are being served with something that, well, makes them dumb. With regard to how a reasonable person can be expected to behave in a bar, the reasonable person standard degrades to the reasonably intoxicated person standard.I don't really blame the teen, you assume that a restaurant or pub would not intentionally serve someone something harmful and/or potentially fatal on purpose.
A similar vapor layer forms when you transiently put a wet finger into hot oil, but still hot oil can do serious tissue damage. Tissue is exposed to extremely low temperatures for an extended time when liquid nitrogen is ingested.axemaster said:This discussion is a bit over the top. It's perfectly safe to put LN2 in a drink - as long as you don't add too much. LN2 tends to form a vapor layer preventing it from damaging something hot like flesh, until the flesh cools down enough to slow the boiling.
She's 18, drunk, clearly wasn't made aware of the danger and was given the drink too soon then left unsupervised. I don't see any reason to blame her and every reason to blame the negligent bar staff and this stupid practice.WannabeNewton said:How is the idiotic girl who drank it knowingly not getting any blame here? I hardly find that fair.
It is my understanding that whilst possible stomach transplants are not routinely performed because the risks of transplantation and the need for immuno-suppressants outweigh the potential benefits of a new stomach. She won't have to have a feeding tube but will have a limited diet and have to eat little and often rather than in larger meals spaced apart.jackmell said:How about keeping within the context of this sub-forum:
She can't just get another one? I would think it would just pop right in. Surely there isn't a long waiting list for stomachs. I see three issues:
(1) blood supply,
(2) nerve supply,
(3) immuno response to a new stomach.
Are there other issues, are these tractable, is this approach better than a life-long feeding tube, and is this a reasonable course of action considering she's just 18?
Ryan_m_b said:It is my understanding that whilst possible stomach transplants are not performed because the risks of transplantation and the need for immuno-suppressants outweigh the potential benefits of a new stomach.
Mentallic said:She was dared into it, and while she clearly didn't know the possible consequences of drinking it, she knew what she was drinking.
How is the idiotic girl who drank it knowingly not getting any blame here? I hardly find that fair.