GR Schutz: Why r Must Decrease in Black Hole Section?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Harel
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Course Gr Schutz
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

In the discussion regarding Schutz's interpretation of General Relativity (GR) in the black hole section, it is established that at r<2GM, r becomes a timelike coordinate while t becomes spacelike, necessitating a decrease in r for infalling particles. The conversation highlights the equivalence of black holes and white holes in the context of the vacuum field equations, emphasizing that no unique solution distinguishes past from future. The maximally extended Schwarzschild spacetime is referenced, which includes both black and white holes, although white holes are not believed to exist in our universe. Additionally, loop quantum gravity is mentioned as a theoretical framework that may allow for bounce solutions, though it remains unverified.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of General Relativity (GR) principles
  • Familiarity with Schwarzschild spacetime
  • Knowledge of Penrose diagrams
  • Basic concepts of loop quantum gravity
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of the Schwarzschild solution in General Relativity
  • Learn how to construct and interpret Penrose diagrams
  • Explore the theoretical aspects of loop quantum gravity
  • Investigate the concept of white holes and their role in cosmology
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, cosmologists, and students of theoretical physics interested in the intricacies of black hole dynamics and the implications of General Relativity.

Harel
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Schutz states in his book in the black hole section that: At r<2GM, r is a timelike coordnate, while t has become spacelike: even more evidence for the funniness of t and r! Since the infalling particle must follow a
timelike world line, it must constantly change r, and of course this means decrease r.
I understand why r must change but why does it means deacreas in r and not increase?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
This is a great question.

There is nothing in GR that distinguishes past from future. Therefore it is not possible that the unique spherically symmetric solution to the vacuum field equations would distinguish past from future. The equations and coordinate charts you're referring to can be described equally well as a white hole, which only emits matter and radiation, but never accepts it.

It is also possible to extend those coordinate charts. The maximally extended version of the Schwarzschild spacetime includes both a black hole and a white hole. However, the white hole can't be formed by gravitational collapse, so we don't think white holes exist in our universe.

I find this kind of thing impossible to analyze without a Penrose diagram. I have a simple, easy intro to Penrose diagrams in my book Relativity for Poets http://www.lightandmatter.com/poets/ , section 11.5. For a fancier discussion, see section 7.3 of General Relativity http://www.lightandmatter.com/genrel/ . For the maximally extended Schwarzschild spacetime, try Carroll http://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/March01/Carroll3/Carroll7.html .
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: martinbn and vanhees71
bcrowell said:
However, the white hole can't be formed by gravitational collapse, so we don't think white holes exist in our universe.
This is true in GR. In loop quantum gravity there are some bounce solutions where the collapse can be turned around. This may be true also in other quantisations, but this is the one I am aware of. (Of course, loop quantum gravity remains unverified to this date.)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K