Gravitation: Sphere is same as point mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the equivalence of gravitational effects between a spherical mass distribution and a point mass, specifically in the context of Newton's law of universal gravitation. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and the validity of the shell theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the gravitational force experienced by a person on Earth is equivalent to that experienced near a point mass located at the center of a spherical shell with the same mass as Earth.
  • The same participant seeks a proof of this equivalence and presents a complex integral related to the gravitational field.
  • Another participant references the shell theorem, suggesting it may provide relevant insights into the problem.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of the integral presented, with one participant noting it appears strange but not necessarily incorrect.
  • Participants agree that a spherical mass distribution behaves gravitationally like a point mass for points outside the body, citing Newton's work and Gauss's theorem to support this claim.
  • A participant shares a link to their work, expressing frustration over discrepancies between their results and accepted answers, and seeks feedback on their calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While there is some agreement on the implications of the shell theorem and the behavior of spherical mass distributions, the discussion contains unresolved questions regarding the specific integral and its interpretation. Multiple viewpoints and interpretations remain present.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves complex mathematical expressions and assumptions that may not be fully articulated, leading to potential misunderstandings or misinterpretations of the gravitational scenarios being analyzed.

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Newton's law of universal gravitation is only valid for point masses. Is it just chance that a person on the Earth experiences the same force of gravity that he would if he were on a shell of no mass and the same radius of Earth with a single point at the shell's center which had the mass of the earth?

Does anyone know of a proof that these two situations are equivalent? I've been trying to do it using spherical coordinates and I get stumped at,
g=2G \pi \delta \int _0^{\pi }\int _0^r\frac{\rho ^2\sin\phi \text{cos}\left\frac{\phi }{2}\right}{r^2+\rho ^2-2\rho r \text{cos}\phi }d\rho d\phi.
Where \delta is the average density and r is the radius.

If anyone is interested in how I got to this, I'd be happy to explain it. If the two listed situations are identical, then the double integral should be \frac{2}{3}.

Thanks in advance!
 
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Feldoh said:
In that picture it is claimed that the distance between the test mass and every point on the shaded band dM is s. Either I'm not getting something, or that distance is different at every point along the band.
 
Your integral looks a bit strange. I'm not saying its wrong.

If you do it right you will get the result that anybody with a spherical mass distribution behaves gravitationally exactly like a point mass for any point outside the body. Newton proved this using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem" .
 
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D H said:
Your integral looks a bit strange. I'm not saying its wrong.

If you do it right you will get the result that anybody with a spherical mass distribution behaves gravitationally exactly like a point mass for any point outside the body. Newton proved this using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_theorem" .

2nd what D H says. if you are outside the sphere and consider the gravitational field vector (as a function of position relative to the center of the sphere), there is no reason (because of symmetry) to think that the direction of the field vector would be different in the two cases. so the direction of the field is the same. and Gauss's Theorem takes care of the magnitude between the two cases (again, for outside the sphere).
 
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I uploaded the word document with all my work on it http://www.mediafire.com/?3nm93snmxgd" , look at that to see how I got to that integral. Btw, when I plug it into mathematica it gives me,
g=\frac{4}{15}G\delta\pi r(1+4\log4).

If someone could look through my paper to see what I did wrong, that'd be great. I hate when I do something I feel is valid but get a different answer than the accepted answer. It's only 2 pages and most of the first isn't necessary to read. Thanks!
 
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