Gravitational attraction and acceleration over time.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of gravitational attraction and acceleration between two bodies, M1 and M2, as they approach each other. Participants explore the implications of this interaction over time, including the equations governing their acceleration and the complexity introduced by additional bodies. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, mathematical modeling, and potential applications in understanding orbits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the acceleration of two bodies changes over time as they approach each other, seeking equations to describe this relationship.
  • Another participant suggests simplifying the problem by assuming the bodies have no initial velocity or momentum.
  • A participant provides the gravitational force equation F = GM1M2/d^2, noting that as distance decreases, the force and thus the acceleration increases.
  • It is mentioned that orbits do not play a role in this scenario, as the bodies would move in a straight line unless a third object is introduced, complicating the dynamics.
  • One participant explains that acceleration is proportional to force and inversely proportional to the square of the distance, indicating that acceleration increases as the bodies get closer.
  • A more complex approach is proposed for calculating the motion of multiple bodies, involving numerical integration and stepwise calculations of velocity and acceleration based on gravitational forces from all bodies involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the acceleration of the bodies increases as they approach each other due to the inverse square law of gravitational attraction. However, there is no consensus on the best method to calculate this acceleration for more than two bodies, with differing opinions on the complexity of the problem and the role of orbits.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding due to the complexity of gravitational interactions with multiple bodies and the mathematical challenges involved in deriving solutions analytically versus numerically.

MrJingles
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Suppose I have 2 bodies, M1 and M2. Assuming that no other forces are acting on them aside from gravity, what is the nature of their acceleration over time? As they approach each other, and their distance decreases, does their acceleration also increase? If so, what is the rate at which this occurs, and with what equation might one find the acceleration or velocity at a specific time, t?

Does it have something to do with F=d(ma)/dt and F(G)?

Also, how might one calculate the gravitational attraction between more than two bodies?
How might one determine the acceleration of each body at a given time as they approach each other?

I only have a limited understanding of calculus (calc 1) and vectors, but do not hesitate to explain in full. Thanks for your time.Oh yes- and do orbits come into play here?
 
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To avoid an absurdly complex problem, let's assume that all these objects magically came into existence without any initial velocity or momentum.
 
The force at which the bodies attract each other is F= GM1M2/d^2, where G is a constant. So when they approach each other the d, distance btwn them, decreases, causing the attraction to increase and the bodies would accelerate towards wach other. Think of g=9.81m/s^2. That is an accelation.
Orbits don't come into play- the objects would travel in a straight line. Introduce a third object and things would bcome more complicated and maybe orbits would appear.
 
I had exactly the same questions a long time ago.
MrJingles said:
what is the nature of their acceleration over time?
Acceleration is proportional to force, and force proportional to the inverse square of the distance between them, therefore as they get closer acceleration increases. You can express acceleration as a function of time analytically for 2 objects, but the maths is not trivial and cannot deal with more than 2 objects. So the general approach is numerical integration:

You take small steps in space based on the speed at each moment, and small speed-steps based on the acceleration at each moment. That is, for N objects you write it like this:

dv1/dt = acceleration a1 = f1( distances between objects )

dr1/dt = velocity v1

dv2/dt = acceleration a2 = f2( distances between objects )

dr2/dt = velocity v2

...
dvN/dt = acceleration aN = fN( distances between objects )

drN/dt = velocity vN

Eg for object 1, whose state is made up of v1 and r1, the steps are like this:
step in space dr1 = v1 * dt
step in speed dv1 = a1 * dt
a1 = f1( r1-r2, r1-r3, ... r1-rN )

Function f1() is the vector sum of the gravitational forces on object 1 due to all other objects (2, 3, .., N), divided by M1 to get the acceleration:

f1(r1,r2,...rN) = 1/M1 * ( G * M1 * M2 / |r1-r2|^2 * (r2-r1)/|r2-r1| + ... )

This expression (r2-r1)/|r2-r1| is just used to get the direction of the vector of force on object 1 due to object 2. The rest is Newton's law of gravity, applied for each pair of objects in turn (only pair 1-2 shown).
 
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