Gravitational potential between two massive particles....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the gravitational potential energy between two massive particles, specifically Z bosons, and the implications of their interaction as they approach each other. Participants explore the classical and quantum mechanical perspectives on gravitational potential, mass, and energy conservation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that all particles are sources of gravitational fields and presents the formula for gravitational potential energy, suggesting that as two Z bosons approach each other, their gravitational potential energy increases and tends to infinity at zero distance.
  • Another participant confirms that the classical gravitational potential at r = 0 is indeed infinite but notes that quantum mechanically, a stationary state cannot be achieved at that distance.
  • A later reply questions whether the increase in gravitational potential leads to a temporary increase in mass, indicating a potential mix of Newtonian and relativistic mechanics.
  • One participant reiterates the gravitational potential energy formula and discusses the relationship between gravitational potential energy and kinetic energy, suggesting that the total energy remains constant as particles approach each other.
  • Another participant warns against mixing Newtonian and relativistic mechanics, implying that this could complicate the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of gravitational potential energy and mass increase, with no consensus reached on the correctness of the claims or the interplay between classical and quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of combining Newtonian and relativistic frameworks, and there are unresolved assumptions regarding the behavior of particles at very small distances.

R. E. Nettleton
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If my understanding is correct, all particles are sources of gravitational fields (albeit minor ones), and the gravitational potential energy between two bodies is given by:
U = -GMm/r

So, if we have two Z bosons (or any other bosons with mass but no repulsion due to charge) which are traveling toward one another and pass through the same space, their gravitational potential energies would increase as the distance between them approaches 0 -- and at 0, the value would be infinite. In accordance with E=mc2, this would result in an increase of mass, tending to infinity.

However, infinitely massive particles seems implausible. Which part of this is incorrect?
 
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Are you asking "Is the classical gravitational potential at r = 0 infinite?"?

The answer is yes. But it's also true that quantum mechanically you cannot reach a stationary state with r = 0.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Are you asking "Is the classical gravitational potential at r = 0 infinite?"?

The answer is yes. But it's also true that quantum mechanically you cannot reach a stationary state with r = 0.
Thanks. Does this increase in gravitational potential lead to a temporary increase in mass?
 
R. E. Nettleton said:
If my understanding is correct, all particles are sources of gravitational fields (albeit minor ones), and the gravitational potential energy between two bodies is given by:
U = -GMm/r

So, if we have two Z bosons (or any other bosons with mass but no repulsion due to charge) which are traveling toward one another and pass through the same space, their gravitational potential energies would increase as the distance between them approaches 0 -- and at 0, the value would be infinite. In accordance with E=mc2, this would result in an increase of mass, tending to infinity.

However, infinitely massive particles seems implausible. Which part of this is incorrect?

The GPE decreases as the particles get closer. In the classical model, this is compensated for by an increase in kinetic energy. The total energy of the system remains constant.
 
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R. E. Nettleton said:
Does this increase in gravitational potential lead to a temporary increase in mass?

Your mixing Newtonian and relativistic mechanics here. The only thing that will make is a mess.
 

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