Gravitational Potential Energy with reference point at infinity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of gravitational potential energy, particularly focusing on the implications of choosing different reference points, such as infinity and the surface of a planet. Participants explore the calculations and interpretations of potential energy values in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that gravitational potential energy from the sun is 100 joules, questioning why it becomes -100 joules when referenced from infinity.
  • Another participant challenges this understanding, explaining that the potential energy at a distance r from the surface is calculated differently than from infinity, specifically using the formula -MmG/R - MmG/r.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the values of R (radius of the planet) and r (distance from the center of the planet) in the context of calculating potential energy.
  • One participant shares a thought experiment calculating the potential energy of a 10 kg ball at 100 m from the Earth's surface, yielding a different value than that derived from the formula -Gmm/r, prompting further questions about the derivation of this formula.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on what GMm/R represents in the context of gravitational potential energy calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing understandings of gravitational potential energy calculations, particularly regarding reference points and the implications of negative values. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully agreed on the definitions and calculations involved in determining gravitational potential energy from different reference points, leading to ongoing questions and clarifications.

Tommy1995
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So, the gravitational potential energy of a mass "X" from the sun is, let's say, 100joules.

Why is it that when we take the gravitational potential energy of the mass from the reference point of infinity that the gravitational potential energy is -100joules?

I understand the negative symbol but it amazes me that the mass would still have the exact same value of 100.

Please help me! :P
 
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It's not. You are misunderstanding something. If it's -100J from reference at infinity, it doesn't mean it's 100J with reference at the surface. At the surface, you have -MmG/R from infinity. So if you are distance r away, the energy with reference to surface is MmG/R-MmG/r.
 
Aaaahh I see K^2, thanks!

But you see how u said, "So if you are distance r away, the energy with reference to surface is MmG/R-MmG/r." What would be the different values of "R" and "r"? I'd like help to know how you can calculate the values of Potential energy from a reference point such as the surface of a planet.

I made up my own thought experiment, finding the potential energy of a 10kg ball at distance 100m from the Earth's surface and found the Gravitational potential energy to be 1000J using the formula W=FS. It was totally different to the Ep found using the formula "-Gmm/r" to find the Ep from infinity... So I have another question, how did they derive "Ep=-Gmm/r" ? It seems I don't quite understand how it calculates the work needed to move an object from an extremely large distance to a point X in space :/

Thanks again for helping me clear up my misunderstandings!
 
Tommy1995 said:
But you see how u said, "So if you are distance r away, the energy with reference to surface is MmG/R-MmG/r." What would be the different values of "R" and "r"? I'd like help to know how you can calculate the values of Potential energy from a reference point such as the surface of a planet.
That's what these are for. R is radius of the planet. r is position at which you want potential energy, also from center of the planet. M is mass of the planet, and m is mass of the body whose potential you want.
 
Thanks again K^2! :D

Btw what is GMm/R finding?
 

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