Gravitational time dilation explanation for Newtonian gravity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between gravitational time dilation and Newtonian gravity, particularly in the context of the Solar system. Participants explore whether Newtonian gravitation can be fully explained through the concept of gravitational time dilation as proposed by Schutz in his book, "Gravity from the Ground up." The conversation includes references to visualizations and interpretations of time in a gravitational field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants recall a claim that gravity in the Newtonian limit can be explained solely through gravitational time dilation.
  • Schutz's argument that all of Newtonian gravitation is a result of the curvature of time is mentioned, but some participants express confusion about this argument.
  • References to external resources, such as Bertschinger's lecture notes, are provided to support the discussion.
  • Visualizations are suggested as a means to understand the relationship between gravitational time dilation and Newtonian gravity.
  • There is a contention regarding a diagram that is claimed to misrepresent the relationship between clocks at different heights, with conflicting interpretations of how time is perceived in a gravitational field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of gravitational time dilation and its implications for Newtonian gravity. There is no consensus on the correctness of the diagram mentioned, and confusion persists regarding Schutz's argument.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that understanding the relationship between time dilation and Newtonian gravity may depend on visual representations, which may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the concepts involved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring the foundations of gravitational theory, particularly in the context of general relativity and its implications for Newtonian physics.

feynmann
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I seem to recall reading a post a long time ago (that I cannot find) that gravity in the Newtonian limit (eg the Solar system) can be completely explained in terms of gravitational time dilation alone.

In his book, Gravity from the Ground up, Schutz argue that All of Newtonian gravitation is simply the curvature of time. Can anyone shed light on this since I don't understand his argument at all?

http://www.gravityfromthegroundup.org/pdf/timecurves.pdf
 
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Try Lecture 5 by Bertschinger:
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-224Exploring-Black-Holes--General-Relativity---AstrophysicsSpring2003/LectureNotes/index.htm

He takes the Newtonian limit at 1:03:00.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
feynmann said:
I seem to recall reading a post a long time ago (that I cannot find) that gravity in the Newtonian limit (eg the Solar system) can be completely explained in terms of gravitational time dilation alone. In his book, Gravity from the Ground up, Schutz argue that All of Newtonian gravitation is simply the curvature of time. Can anyone shed light on this since I don't understand his argument at all?
The "stretched" time dimension causes both: gravitational time dilation and Newtonian gravitation. You have to visualize it to understand it:
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/demoweb..._and_general_relativity/curved_spacetime.html
 
A.T. said:
The "stretched" time dimension causes both: gravitational time dilation and Newtonian gravitation. You have to visualize it to understand it:
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/demoweb..._and_general_relativity/curved_spacetime.html
feynmann said:
That diagram is wrong. It shows the ceiling clock runs slower than the floor clock
No it doesn't. The ceiling clock gets ahead of the floor clock in proper time, so it runs faster.
 

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