Gravitational waves and Tidal forces

In summary: This conversation discusses the differences between tidal forces and gravitational waves. Tidal forces are caused by the varying strength of gravity over distance, while gravitational waves are ripples in spacetime caused by high mass binary pairs. Tidal forces are responsible for phenomena such as the tides and gravity gradient torque, while gravitational waves can be measured using laser interferometry. There is some confusion in the conversation, with some participants incorrectly describing one as the other.
  • #1
alvarogz
38
0
Anybody could explain me the difference between tidal forces and gravitational waves?
My question emerges from the fact that gravitational waves has never been detected and also considering that tidal forces are very well understood by current physicist.


Thanks
AG
 
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  • #2
Tidal forces are caused by the varying strength of gravity over distance, meaning an object will have differing strengths of gravity from an object. For example, the Earth and the moon. The side of the Earth closest to the moon will have a strong pull from the gravity of the moon then the side father away.

Gravitational waves are ripples that propagate through spacetime as a wave. I'm not the best when it comes to this, but I think they are caused by high mass binary pairs (eg 2 orbiting neutron stars). These orbital period of these stars will slowly decrease over time, meaning they are getting closer, and losing energy. This energy is emitted as gravitational waves.
 
  • #3
alvarogz said:
Anybody could explain me the difference between tidal forces and gravitational waves?
Tidal forces are usally described as the deformation (stretching and squashing) of a bunch of freely falling test particles. This occures in free fall towards a mass and periodically in the transverse plane of a gravitational wave passing by, the plane perpendicular to the direction of the propagation of the wave. There is confidence that this tiny effect will be measured by means of laser interferometry.
 
  • #4
timmdeeg said:
Tidal forces are usally described as the deformation (stretching and squashing) of a bunch of freely falling test particles. This occures in free fall towards a mass and periodically in the transverse plane of a gravitational wave passing by, the plane perpendicular to the direction of the propagation of the wave. There is confidence that this tiny effect will be measured by means of laser interferometry.
Huh? We observe tidal forces every day. They are responsible for the tides, both the ocean tides and the Earth tides. They are also responsible for the gravity gradient torque that act on artificial satellites.
 
  • #5
timmdeeg said:
Tidal forces are usally described as the deformation (stretching and squashing) of a bunch of freely falling test particles. This occures in free fall towards a mass and periodically in the transverse plane of a gravitational wave passing by, the plane perpendicular to the direction of the propagation of the wave. There is confidence that this tiny effect will be measured by means of laser interferometry.
(my bold)

I presume the bolded part refers to the GWs, not the everyday tidal effects. Seems entirely correct to me.
 
  • #6
I think he just reversed Tidal gravity with gravity waves.
 
  • #7
alexg said:
I think he just reversed Tidal gravity with gravity waves.
No, he didn't.

Once again:

The Gravity of a mass causes tidal forces. An example are the tides, driven by the combinded gravity of moon and sun. Remember "stretching - squashing".

Gravitational waves cause tidal forces as well, as mentioned.

He recommends to read the resp. Wikipedia articles, for forther details.
 
  • #8
Tidal forces are usally described as the deformation (stretching and squashing) of a bunch of freely falling test particles. This occures in free fall towards a mass and periodically in the transverse plane of a gravitational wave passing by, the plane perpendicular to the direction of the propagation of the wave. There is confidence that this tiny effect will be measured by means of laser interferometry

What you are describing here is gravity waves, not tidal forces.
 
  • #9
If you fall into a BH you will be stretched out like taffy due the gravity gradient between feet and head. This is called a tidal effect.

Larry Niven in his sci fi book Neutron Star wrote a few stories about one where the pilot curled into a baby position to minimize the effect. Not sure if that would really work but his spaceship was indestructible built from a single molecule but that's another story.
 
  • #10
alexg said:
Tidal forces are usally described as the deformation (stretching and squashing) of a bunch of freely falling test particles. This occures in free fall towards a mass and periodically in the transverse plane of a gravitational wave passing by, the plane perpendicular to the direction of the propagation of the wave. There is confidence that this tiny effect will be measured by means of laser interferometry
What you are describing here is gravity waves, not tidal forces.

No. He has described both.
Tidal forces are usally described as the deformation (stretching and squashing) of a bunch of freely falling test particles. This occurs in free fall towards a mass ...
Tidal effect in the Scwarzschild spacetime, for instance

... and periodically in the transverse plane of a gravitational wave passing by, the plane perpendicular to the direction of the propagation of the wave. There is confidence that this tiny effect will be measured by means of laser interferometry

gravitational waves.
 
  • #11
Thanks for clarifying, Mentz114.
 
  • #12
jedishrfu said:
If you fall into a BH you will be stretched out like taffy due the gravity gradient between feet and head. This is called a tidal effect.
And you will be squashed perpendicular to the free fall direction. The two effects, stretching and squashing cancel each other, so the distortion doesn't change the volume.
 

What are gravitational waves?

Gravitational waves are a form of energy that travels through space, caused by the acceleration of massive objects. They are ripples in the fabric of spacetime, predicted by Einstein's theory of general relativity.

How are gravitational waves detected?

Gravitational waves are detected using specialized instruments called interferometers, which measure tiny changes in the distance between two objects caused by the passing of a gravitational wave. The first detection of gravitational waves was made in 2015 by the LIGO interferometer.

What is the significance of detecting gravitational waves?

The detection of gravitational waves confirms the existence of these ripples in spacetime, providing evidence for the theory of general relativity. It also opens up a new window for observing and studying the universe, as gravitational waves can reveal information about massive objects such as black holes and neutron stars.

What are tidal forces?

Tidal forces are the result of the gravitational pull of one object on another, causing a distortion in the object's shape. This is most commonly seen in the tides on Earth, which are caused by the Moon's gravitational pull on our planet.

How do tidal forces affect objects?

Tidal forces can cause objects to stretch or compress, depending on their distance from the source of the gravitational pull. For example, the Moon's tidal forces cause the oceans on Earth to bulge, creating high and low tides. In extreme cases, tidal forces can even tear apart objects, such as when a star gets too close to a black hole.

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