Gravity Waves vs Elastic Sheet: Is the Analogy Productive?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the analogy between gravitational waves and the vibrational modes of a two-dimensional rubber sheet. Participants explore the feasibility of this analogy, particularly in the context of non-relativistic velocities and the implications of material properties like Poisson's ratio.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the productivity of the analogy, noting that gravitational waves stretch in one direction and compress in another, which may impose constraints on the hypothetical rubber sheet's Poisson's ratio.
  • Another participant argues that the nature of rubber waves is fundamentally dipole, while gravitational waves are quadrupole, suggesting a fundamental mismatch in the analogy.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that a three-dimensional body with a Poisson's ratio of 0.5 might be necessary to conserve volume, but expresses skepticism about the feasibility of simulating gravitational waves with a rubber sheet analogy.
  • One participant proposes that sound waves, which are displacements parallel to the sheet, could serve as a model for vector fields, while gravitational waves, being a spin-2 tensor field, may be better represented by a metal net analogy.
  • Another participant humorously notes the challenge of finding a real-life analogy for spinor waves, indicating a desire for further exploration in this area.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and utility of the rubber sheet analogy for gravitational waves, with no consensus reached on its effectiveness or limitations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions regarding the properties of materials and the nature of wave propagation, indicating that the discussion is constrained by these considerations.

pervect
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The basic question was inspired by some other recent threads on the "fabric of space". If we imagine a 2-d spatial rubber sheet, how closely can we make its vibrational modes compare to gravity waves (in the limit of non-relativistic velocities).

It's well known that gravity waves locally stretch in one direction and compress in the other, I would assume this would place some constraints on Poisson's ratio of our hypothetical material.

Is this even possible at all, or is the analogy unproductive if we try to take it too seriously? As I recall, there are no spherically symmetric gravity waves, but if we drop a pebble on a sheet, we expect as a primary mode spherically symmetric ripples.
 
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I don't think this will work. The rubber waves are fundamentally dipole in nature and gravitational waves are fundamentally quadrupole.
 
I think you need at least a 3D-body with Poisson's ratio 0.5 to conserve the volume. It wouldn't work, though. Imagine a plane wave: You have deflections proportional to transverse distance, that means arbitrarily large. If you want to simulate this with real, proper acceleration, you have to reduce the frequency accordingly to zero.
I could imagine a quadrupole deformation propagating along a tube, but I'm not sure about this.
 
pervect said:
The basic question was inspired by some other recent threads on the "fabric of space". If we imagine a 2-d spatial rubber sheet, how closely can we make its vibrational modes compare to gravity waves (in the limit of non-relativistic velocities).

It's well known that gravity waves locally stretch in one direction and compress in the other, I would assume this would place some constraints on Poisson's ratio of our hypothetical material.

Is this even possible at all, or is the analogy unproductive if we try to take it too seriously? As I recall, there are no spherically symmetric gravity waves, but if we drop a pebble on a sheet, we expect as a primary mode spherically symmetric ripples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_wave

Sorry, couldn't resist ;)
 
If we imagine a 2-d spatial rubber sheet, how closely can we make its vibrational modes compare to gravity waves
Rubber sheet gets deformed in the dimension perpendicular to the sheet and is a good model of a scalar field.

Sound waves are displacements in the dimension(s) parallel to the sheet, so they are a good model of a vector field.

Gravitational waves are a spin-2 tensor field. The best analogy I saw looks like the metal net used for fences:
2wf4hnn.jpg


Its modes of vibration look a bit like that:
19o3gx.jpg


This is the closest analogy of a spin-2 wave I know.

Now if someone could give me a real life analogy of a spinor wave my life will be complete :).
 

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