Grounding conductor connected to grounded conductor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electrical current in relation to grounded and grounding conductors in residential electrical systems. Participants explore the misconceptions surrounding current flow, particularly why current does not preferentially flow into the Earth ground from the neutral conductor under normal operating conditions. The conversation touches on concepts of bonding, resistance, and safety in electrical systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about why current does not flow into the Earth ground from the neutral conductor, questioning the path of least resistance concept.
  • Another participant clarifies that current does not inherently seek the path of least resistance to ground, but rather flows back to the source, splitting between available paths based on their resistances.
  • A participant corrects terminology related to electrical wiring in the USA, emphasizing the roles of hot, neutral, and ground wires in safety and circuit functionality.
  • Concerns are raised about the dangers of improperly bonded systems, where current appears to flow to ground even when the neutral path is intact, suggesting that this can lead to hazardous situations.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of high resistance paths and the potential for current to flow to ground in cases of shorts, questioning the reliability of grounding systems.
  • There is a suggestion to consider isolation transformers as a means to understand current behavior without the influence of grounding systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of current in relation to grounding and bonding. There is no consensus on the reasons for current flow to ground in certain scenarios, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of improperly bonded systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of electrical systems and the importance of proper bonding and grounding. There are references to varying resistance values in different paths, but the discussion does not resolve the implications of these factors on current flow.

  • #31
Baluncore said:
Back to the topic, your argument that Norway needs the IT system because it is largely made of rock
Well, all countries are based on rock. The thing about Norway is that the last Ice Age scoured bedrock bare (my theory is that Denmark is largely made up from those masses the ice removed from Norway).

And - my last comments on power distribution:
  • The town of Hammerfest (very far north) got electric power installed very early. The reason: Midnight sun in the summer but midday darkness in winter. The sun is below horizon from about 20th of November until about 20th of January.
  • This may be an urban legend, but anyhow: When the town of Trondhjem was due to be electrified, there was a broad political discussion on whether to go for 115V or 230V. A political resolution was to go for the middle - namely 150V. Fortunately, the politicians did not have the last word...
 
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  • #32
Svein said:
This may be an urban legend, but anyhow: When the town of Trondhjem was due to be electrified, there was a broad political discussion on whether to go for 115V or 230V. A political resolution was to go for the middle - namely 150V. Fortunately, the politicians did not have the last word...
Go for the middle voltage that no-one uses! Talk about sitting on the fence... A perfect place to quote Jim Hardy:

“The grid is a machine and when politicians mess with machinery they generally do it harm”.

Source https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/interview-instrument-engineer-jim-hardy/
 
  • #33
The issue of grounding for human / pubic safety is completely "political" - or relating to the Public Affairs. In the USA, OSHA, NEC (NFPA) and other agencies regulate these systems, they exist because the people wanted it.

Originally most if not all systems were ungrounded, there are still some legacy delta fed systems in the USA. In these system the priority was given to up-time or reliability, and to build in human safety was an added cost and complexity. IMO - human life is WORTH more today & we pay more to protect it. Years ago it was accepted that people died in the workplace or on the farm. We had 12 year olds working in coal mines and tanneries.

If the powers that be in a region did not want to pay the price to change or upgrade the system to protect human life, they did not. In some cases, they chose to use other protections, for example behavior (not good protection).

So, I guess my point is that the way these systems are has evolved over time, and there are human reasons for different regions having different philosophies. While you could say the systems are not optimized for operation, or you can say that the objectives in building these systems has changed.
 

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