Group velocity and the dispersion relation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of group velocity and its relationship to phase velocity within the context of wave mechanics. Participants are exploring the mathematical derivation of group velocity from the dispersion relation, specifically focusing on the differentiation of the equation w=vk.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to differentiate the equation w=vk with respect to k to derive the expression for group velocity. Questions arise regarding the application of the chain rule and the correctness of the derived expressions. There is also discussion about the implications of the relationship between group and phase velocity.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing feedback on each other's mathematical approaches. Some have noted potential errors in the application of differentiation, while others are questioning the physical implications of the derived expressions. Guidance has been offered regarding the relationship between group velocity and phase velocity, particularly in terms of their respective roles in information transfer.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under constraints of not providing numerical answers and are encouraged to clarify their reasoning and assumptions. There is a reference to external resources for further exploration of the topic.

Kaguro
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Homework Statement
Q.Light of wavelength λ (in free space) propagates through a dispersive medium with refractive index n(λ)=1.5 + 0.6λ. The group velocity of a wave travelling inside this medium in units of 10^8 m/s is
(A) 1.5 (B) 2.0 (C) 3.0 (D)4.0
Relevant Equations
Group velocity is dw/dk. And phase velocity v is w/k.
After noting w=vk and differentiating with respect to k, and lots of simplifying, I get:

Vg = c/n +(2*pi*0.6)/(k*n)

This doesn't correspond to any numerical value though...
 
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You differentiated what with respect to k?
 
kuruman said:
You differentiated what with respect to k?
I differentiated both sides of the equation w=vk w.r.t k

This will give me
dw/dk=v + k(dv/dk)

Group velocity is then dw/dk.
v is c/n the phase velocity..

and then I wrote k=2*pi/lamda
And substituted value of dk.
 
It looks like you did not apply the chain rule correctly.
 
Last edited:
kuruman said:
It looks like you did not apply the chain rule correctly.
Oh! That's right...

Now the value I get for group velocity is:

Vg=(c/n)+0.6*c*lamda/n^2

Is this correct?

Even so, this is not a numerical answer..
 
Kaguro said:
Oh! That's right...

Now the value I get for group velocity is:

Vg=(c/n)+0.6*c*lamda/n^2

Is this correct?

Even so, this is not a numerical answer..
Look at your expression. It says that group velocity is equal to phase velocity plus something greater than zero. Can the group velocity be greater than the phase velocity? How did you get your answer. Please post the details of your work.
 
15817913115388635755890327047965.jpg


This is my work. Sorry for not typing all this out. That would have taken me hours..
 
The photo is upside down. Next time please post any photos right side up. It's the considerate thing to do.

Your final expression looks algebraically correct.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
A quick check is to remember that group velocity is related to information transfer, hence it is always less than or equal to the speed of light in vacuum. Phase velocity, on the other hand, does not convey any information and can be greater than c.
 

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