Groups of Automorphisms - remarks by Anderson and Feil ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the claims made by Anderson and Feil regarding the group of automorphisms of the real numbers, specifically whether $$\text{Aut}( \mathbb{R} )$$ is the trivial group. Participants are exploring the definitions and implications of field automorphisms versus permutations, as well as attempting to establish properties of automorphisms on the real numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses confusion over the claim that $$\text{Aut}( \mathbb{R} )$$ is the trivial group, suggesting that there should be infinitely many permutations of the real numbers.
  • Some participants clarify the distinction between permutations and field automorphisms, noting that field automorphisms must preserve addition and multiplication.
  • Peter proposes that an automorphism $$f$$ on $$\mathbb{R}$$ is fixed on the rational numbers $$\mathbb{Q}$$ and attempts to establish this through specific examples and properties of automorphisms.
  • Participants suggest that Peter should show that $$f(n/m) = n/m$$ for all rational numbers and prove that $$f$$ is continuous to support his argument.
  • There is a focus on the properties of automorphisms, including the requirement that they be strictly increasing and positive for all positive $$x$$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the distinction between permutations and field automorphisms, but there is no consensus on the implications of these definitions for the claim about $$\text{Aut}( \mathbb{R} )$$ being trivial. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the completeness of Peter's argument and the proof of continuity.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the argument relies on the properties of rational numbers and the definitions of automorphisms, but there are unresolved steps in proving continuity and the behavior of $$f$$ on all real numbers.

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I am reading Anderson and Feil - A First Course in Abstract Algebra.

I am currently focused on Ch. 24: Abstract Groups ... ...

I need some help in understanding some claims in Chapter 24 by Anderson and Feil ... ...Anderson and Feil claim that $$\text{Aut}( \mathbb{R} )$$ is the trivial group ...

This surprises me a great deal as it seems to be saying that the number of permutations of the real number is $$1$$ ...! It seems to me that this should be an infinite number ... but obviously my intuition is way out ... ! Can someone please explain to me why $$\text{Aut}( \mathbb{R} )$$ is the trivial group ...?Peter
NOTE: Anderson and Feil also claim that the groups $$\text{Aut}( \mathbb{R} )$$ and $$\text{Aut}( \mathbb{R} )$$ are the trivial group ... but how can this be ...
 
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Hi Peter,

You're confusing permutation with field automorphism. Permutations on a set $S$ are bijections from $S$ onto itself, whereas automorphisms of a field $F$ are bijections that preseve addition and multiplication in $F$. The dilation map $\Bbb R\to \Bbb R$, $x\mapsto 2x$ is a permuation on $\Bbb R$, but not a field automorphism since it does not map $1$ to $1$.

Let $\sigma \in \operatorname{Aut}(\Bbb R)$. Use induction arguments to show that $\sigma(q) = q$ for every rational number $q$. Then prove that $\sigma$ is a continuous. By density of the rationals in the reals, it will follow that $\sigma$ is the identity.
 
Euge said:
Hi Peter,

You're confusing permutation with field automorphism. Permutations on a set $S$ are bijections from $S$ onto itself, whereas automorphisms of a field $F$ are bijections that preseve addition and multiplication in $F$. The dilation map $\Bbb R\to \Bbb R$, $x\mapsto 2x$ is a permuation on $\Bbb R$, but not a field automorphism since it does not map $1$ to $1$.

Let $\sigma \in \operatorname{Aut}(\Bbb R)$. Use induction arguments to show that $\sigma(q) = q$ for every rational number $q$. Then prove that $\sigma$ is a continuous. By density of the rationals in the reals, it will follow that $\sigma$ is the identity.

Thanks for the help Euge ... I think i can establish that an automorphism $$f $$ on $$\mathbb{R}$$ is fixed on the rational numbers $$\mathbb{Q}$$ ... ...
Suppose $$f$$ is an automorphism on $$\mathbb{R}$$ ...

Then $$f(n) = n$$ and $$f(1/m) = 1/m$$ for all $$m, n \in \mathbb{Z}$$ ...... ... to show $$f(n) = n$$ ... ...

$$f(1) = 1$$ ... ... property of automorphism$$f(2) = f(1 + 1) = f(1) + f(1) = 1 + 1 = 2$$$$f(3) = f( 1 + 2 ) = f(1) + f(2) = 1 + 2 = 3$$... and so on ... so $$f(n) = n$$
... ... to show $$f(1/m) = 1/m$$ ... ...$$f(1) = f(m \cdot m^{-1} ) = f(m) \cdot f( m^{-1} ) = 1$$$$\Longrightarrow f( m^{-1} ) = 1 / f(m) = 1/m$$ ...... that is ... $$f ( 1/m ) = 1/m$$ ... ...
The case of $$-n$$ and/or $$-m$$ is covered by the fact that $$f( -a) = - f(a) $$ for all $$a \in \mathbb{R}$$ ... ... So ... $$f$$ is fixed on the rational numbers $$\mathbb{Q}$$ ...Is that correct?Not sure how to proceed ... can you help further ...

Peter
 
You're almost there. Rational numbers are generally in the form $n/m$ where $n$ and $m$ are integers with $m \neq 0$ (they're not just in the form $n/1$ or $1/m$). So the missing piece of your argument is establishing $f(n/m) = n/m$ for all such $n$ and $m$.

To proceed after that point, show first that $f(x) > 0$ for all $x > 0$, then prove $\sigma$ is strictly increasing. This will help in constructing a (short) $\epsilon-\delta$ argument to prove $\sigma$ is continuous.
 
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Euge said:
You're almost there. Rational numbers are generally in the form $n/m$ where $n$ and $m$ are integers with $m /neq 0$ (they're not just in the form $n/1$ or $1/m$). So the missing piece of your argument is establishing $f(n/m) = n/m$ for all such $n$ and $m$.

To proceed after that point, show first that $\sigma(x) > 0$ for all $x > 0$, then prove $\sigma$ is strictly increasing. This will help in constructing a (short) $\epsilon-\delta$ argument to prove $\sigma$ is continuous.
Yes, didn't quite finish ...

We have $$f(n/m) = f(n \cdot 1/m ) = f(n) \cdot f(1/m) = n \cdot 1/m = n/m$$ ... using multiplicative property of automorphism ...

Peter
 
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Peter said:
Yes, didn't quite finish ...

We have $$f(n/m) = f(n \cdot 1/m ) = f(n) \cdot f(1/m) = n \cdot 1/m = n/m$$ ... using multiplicative property of automorphism ...

Peter

Did you also prove that $f$ is continuous?
 

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