Have this damnable thought ever slipped through your mind that

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether individual votes truly count in elections, particularly in the context of potential voter disenfranchisement and the political climate surrounding voting rights. Participants explore various perspectives on the effectiveness and significance of voting at different levels, including local, state, and national elections.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether votes genuinely count, suggesting that issues like equipment glitches could undermine the voting process.
  • Others argue that while votes are counted, the influence of money in politics, particularly after legal changes regarding super PACs, raises concerns about the practical value of voting.
  • A participant references historical instances of vote manipulation in ancient democracies, drawing parallels to modern concerns about election integrity.
  • Some express that voting in local elections may have a more direct impact on their lives compared to presidential elections, while others feel a stronger connection to global issues.
  • Concerns are raised about efforts to disenfranchise specific voter demographics, including the poor, elderly, and minorities, citing examples of legislative measures that could hinder access to voting.
  • Participants discuss the implications of requiring state-issued IDs for voting and the potential hardships this could impose on certain populations.
  • There is a recognition that the discussion is inherently political, despite attempts to keep it within a general discourse context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the significance and impact of voting, with no clear consensus on whether individual votes count equally or are subject to manipulation. Disagreement exists regarding the effectiveness of voting in the current political landscape, particularly concerning disenfranchisement issues.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions about the voting process, including the reliability of voting equipment and the influence of political actions on voter turnout. The discussion reflects a mix of personal experiences and broader political observations, with some participants acknowledging their limited knowledge of voting systems outside their own contexts.

  • #91
Alex_Sanders said:
your vote... might not count?

Most of the votes I have ever cast didn't matter. If you live in Utah, New York, Alabama, California or a host of other states, your vote for president will never count. The closest my vote ever came to counting was when I lived in Florida in 2000 (I voted for Bush). Our next president will be selected by a small number of people in a handfull of states (and maybe the supreme court).

Skippy
 
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  • #92
wuliheron said:
Congress has an all time low approval rating with the overwhelming number of Americans disapproving of the job they're doing, yet only 10% of house seats have changed parties in the last ten years...
10% over five elections? It's quite a bit higher. In 2010 alone the swing was 63 seats (14%), and that's net, with 69 seats actually changing parties.
 
  • #93
skippy1729 said:
Most of the votes I have ever cast didn't matter. If you live in Utah, New York, Alabama, California or a host of other states, your vote for president will never count. The closest my vote ever came to counting was when I lived in Florida in 2000 (I voted for Bush). Our next president will be selected by a small number of people in a handfull of states (and maybe the supreme court).

Skippy


Well, that's not exactly true. It's true individually, but by that reasoning, the only time a vote counts is if it's the single deciding vote, which never happens. Voting is a collective of individual decisions.
 
  • #94
mheslep said:
10% over five elections? It's quite a bit higher. In 2010 alone the swing was 63 seats (14%), and that's net, with 69 seats actually changing parties.

You're correct, I was referring to the ten years prior to 2010. Here is a chart showing the history of congress' turnover rate from the Cato Institute:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/images/v14n3-fig1.gif
 
  • #95
No matter what the rate of replacement is, it's, imho, too low. And I attribute this in large part to the absence of term limits. There are people who have been in Congress for 20 + years, and I think that this contributes to the perception (and, in a sense, the reality) that our individual votes don't matter much.

But, how are we going to get a congress that votes for term limits if we keep voting for, and electing, pretty much only Democrats and Republicans? Well, imho, we aren't. Thus, the suggestion that people stop voting for Democrats and Republicans -- if they want any sort of significant change in the status quo that is.

It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with third party movements. Although, imho, a third party would be a good thing. It just has to do with NOT voting for status quo, ie., major party, candidates.
 

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