Have you ever wondered how true random number generators work?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms and implications of true random number generators (TRNGs) versus pseudorandom number generators (PRNGs). Participants explore the algorithms behind these systems, their applications, and the contexts in which one may be preferred over the other.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the randomness of numbers generated by Mathematica 7, suggesting that there must be an underlying process or algorithm involved.
  • Another participant mentions various techniques for pseudorandom number generation and notes that modern Intel chips may have hardware capabilities for generating true random numbers using physical processes.
  • Some participants argue that pseudorandom number generation suffices for most applications, with one stating that it is adequate for 99% of use cases.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of hardware random number generators, indicating that they are not guaranteed to produce perfectly random numbers and cautioning about their implementation.
  • A participant introduces the concept of true random number generators based on quantum mechanics, specifically mentioning a product that utilizes single photons for randomness and its application in secure communication systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and reliability of true random number generators versus pseudorandom number generators. While some agree on the sufficiency of pseudorandom generation for most applications, others highlight specific scenarios where true randomness is crucial.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the effectiveness and implementation of hardware random number generators, as well as the specific algorithms used in various software applications for generating random numbers.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those involved in computer science, cryptography, and applications requiring random number generation, such as simulations and secure communications.

Winzer
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Take for instance when you ask Mathematica 7 to generate a random number. This number can't be really random. It has to adhere to some process for picking that specific number. Does anyone know anything about the algorithm/process to this?
 
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There are a variety of well-studied techniques for this. Google "pseudorandom number generation" or "pseudorandom number generator".

I believe that modern Intel chips have an instruction or somesuch that actually produces true random numbers (it uses two interfering oscillators plugged into a voltage meter, or something) but I do not know whether any programming libraries actually tap into this.
 
Why would they? Pseudorandom number generation is good enough for 99% of applications.
 
csprof2000 said:
Why would they? Pseudorandom number generation is good enough for 99% of applications.

Pseudorandom is used in 995 of applications, whether they are good enough or not depends.
If you are using them to hand out money (lotteries) or do crypto that you care about then you might need real (hardware) random numbers.
The via C3 (used in a lot of low power notebooks) has homework random number feature so do a bunch of specialist IBM and Intel chips, but AFAIK Intel's regular desktop chips don't. HW random number generators aren't guaranteed to produce perfectly random numbers either - you still have to be careful in the actual implementation.

Pseudorandom is still very useful for things like monte-carlo simulations, you don't care if the same stream of numbers is used everytime (in fact that is vital for testing) but you need a set of numbers with a certain known distribution.
 
You can buy a true random number generator based on a pure quantum mechanical system, based states of single photons.

http://www.idquantique.com/products/quantis.htm

(This is not spam, I have no affiliation with that company).

They also make a true quantum key-distribution system, which let's you set up a quantum channel (an optical fiber which carries single photons) and carry out what is, theoretically, a perfectly secure communication. They use this in the Swiss federal elections.
 

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