Having trouble rearranging this RC circuit

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around an RC circuit problem involving capacitors and resistors, where the switch has been closed for a long time, leading to a constant current. The participants are tasked with finding the charge on one capacitor and the change in charge on another capacitor after the switch is opened.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationships between voltage, current, and power in the circuit, questioning how rearrangements of components affect the analysis. There are attempts to clarify the series and parallel configurations of the circuit elements and their implications on current flow.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the behavior of capacitors in a steady state and the implications of opening the switch. There is recognition of the need to determine voltages and currents to solve for the charge on the capacitors, with some expressing confidence in their understanding of the circuit dynamics.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of circuit analysis with given values for resistors and capacitors, while also addressing assumptions about the steady state of the circuit and the behavior of components when the switch is opened.

horsedeg
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Homework Statement


Switch S shown in the figure below has been closed for a long time, and the electric circuit carries a constant current. Take
C1 = 3.00 μF

C2 = 6.00 μF,

R1 = 4.00 kΩ,
and
R2 = 7.00 kΩ.
The power delivered to R2 is 2.30 W.
28-p-071.gif


(a) Find the charge on C1.
(b) Now the switch is opened. After many milliseconds, by how much has the charge on C2 changed?

Homework Equations


P=IV
V=IR
Q=CV

The Attempt at a Solution


To find the charge on C1 I would use Q=CV, but first I would need to find the voltage or substitute one of the other equations.

I looked at the solution, and it gives me this image (different values):
upload_2016-11-30_19-20-32.png

I have no idea why it can be rearranged like this, since even the capacitors/resistors change places.

My first plan was using the fact that R2 is given power of 2.30W, so then I would use P=IV and V=IR to get P=I2R. Solve for I and I get the current there. However, according to the solution it determines the current of the whole thing. I don't see how that's possible from either arrangement.
 
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horsedeg said:
I have no idea why it can be rearranged like this, since even the capacitors/resistors change places.
Parallel components don't care who's on the left or who's on the right. They can be swapped if it's going to make things a little clearer to readers. :smile:

⏩Once you have determined the voltage or current for one resistor, you know everything about all the other components here. So what is the voltage across R2?
 
I don't feel comfortable enough with the math to help there, but I wanted to respond to your comment "I have no idea why it can be rearranged like this, since even the capacitors/resistors change places."

In both diagrams, the block of C1 and R1 is in series with the block of C2 and R2. C1 is in parallel with R1, and C2 is in parallel with R2. In both, current can travel down C1 or R1, then to C2 or R2. It's the same circuit.
 
NascentOxygen said:
Parallel components don't care who's on the left or who's on the right. They can be swapped if it's going to make things a little clearer to readers. :smile:

⏩Once you have determined the voltage or current for one resistor, you know everything about all the other components here. So what is the voltage across R2?
P=IV, so solving for voltage V=P/I. We don't know what I is, so we plug in V=IR, or I=V/R. Then we get V2=PR2. Plugging in the values, we get that the voltage drop across R2 is 126.89V.

So from then we could easily find the current at that place, but that would only be that part of the current, wouldn't it?

EDIT: I'm stupid. I forgot that it's been on for a long time so that the capacitors are fully charged. Right? So then they act as infinite resistors, meaning R1 and R2 are in series. So then I can use V=IR to find the current by plugging in both V and R with what I had before. Then, because that's the total current at that moment, I can use V=IR1 to find the voltage across the top two devices. Then I can use Q=CV and solve for Q on the capacitor because it's parallel and has the same voltage.

I guess I could also use this info to determine the voltage of the battery with the two resistors in series using V=IR, meaning Voltage of the battery is 199.39V. So then the voltage across each parallel combination of capacitor & resistor would have an overall drop of 199.39V.
 
Last edited:
horsedeg said:
it's been on for a long time so that the capacitors are fully charged. Right? So then they act as infinite resistors, meaning R1 and R2 are in series.
Right. The capacitors are charged and no longer drawing current, so in the steady state all current flow is in the resistors.

For (b), can you explain in words what happens when S is later opened?
 
NascentOxygen said:
Right. The capacitors are charged and no longer drawing current, so in the steady state all current flow is in the resistors.
Okay, I definitely get this one now easily. Thanks.
 

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