Helium 4 & Photon: Seeping & Propagation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of superfluid helium-4, particularly its ability to seep through glass containers and its properties compared to photon propagation. Participants explore the conditions under which helium-4 becomes superfluid and the implications of its unique characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that superfluid helium-4 can seep through glass due to van der Waals interactions, while others express uncertainty about this claim.
  • One participant notes that helium-4 enters the superfluid state below 2.17 Kelvin and highlights its use in testing leak rates due to its small molecular size.
  • Another participant emphasizes the distinction between helium as a gas and as a superfluid, mentioning that superfluid helium has a macroscopic quantum phase that allows it to flow without dissipation.
  • There is a clarification regarding the use of helium in leak detection, with some participants discussing its properties in both gas and superfluid states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express mixed views on the ability of superfluid helium-4 to seep through glass, with no consensus reached on this point. There is also a distinction made between the behavior of helium in its gas phase versus its superfluid state, indicating some agreement on the properties of helium but disagreement on specific applications.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the conditions required for helium-4 to become superfluid and the implications of its quantum properties, but the discussion does not resolve the uncertainties regarding its behavior in relation to glass.

cragar
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When helium 4 is a super fluid can it seep through a glass container , I know it can crawl out of the glass due to the van der walls interaction . But I’ve got mixed answers about the seeping through the glass .
And does a photon propagate through space in a similar way an electron wave propagates through space .
 
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cragar said:
When helium 4 is a super fluid can it seep through a glass container , I know it can crawl out of the glass due to the van der walls interaction . But I’ve got mixed answers about the seeping through the glass .

Helium-4 is only a superfluid when cooled to below its lambda point, 2.17 Kelvin (271 C), at which point it enters the Helium II state, yes it will crawl up walls, yes it can seep through glass. Helium is generally used to test leak rates of vacuum chambers and such because it has such a small molecular diameter and is inert, the only inert substance which will leak thrrough pores or cracks at such a small scale - take a look at healium leak detectors. As you'll know if you've ever had a helium balloon it will leak through the pores in that over time, the same happens with glass, both as a gas or as a superfluid.

Addressing the Helium-4 part - Helium-4 is the most frequent, Helium 3 is quite "rare" and has one neutron, 4 has two neutrons, however they're both stable.
 
thanks for the answer.
 
Raekwon, the use of Helium as a leak detector is because it is inert and very small. However, this is much different than anything having to do with superfluid 4He. It's used to test leaks when it is in the gas phase, but the thing about superfluid, is that it has a macroscopic quantum phase, which allows it to flow without dissipation.
 
nnnm4 said:
Raekwon, the use of Helium as a leak detector is because it is inert and very small. However, this is much different than anything having to do with superfluid 4He. It's used to test leaks when it is in the gas phase, but the thing about superfluid, is that it has a macroscopic quantum phase, which allows it to flow without dissipation.

That's what I said?

Helium is generally used to test leak rates of vacuum chambers and such because it has such a small molecular diameter and is inert

Okay maybe I should have separated it a little, but I meant as the gas - hence just saying Helium rather than State II, that's also why I used a balloon as an example, I'm sure we all know nobody fills balloons with superfluids :P
 

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