Help Interpeting Mathematica Result

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around interpreting the output from Mathematica, specifically regarding the terms 1.1, x.1, and y.1 in a mathematical expression involving vectors. Participants explore the implications of these terms in the context of vector derivatives and how to properly handle them in Mathematica.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the interpretation of the terms in the Mathematica output, questioning whether the notation implies a dot product between scalars.
  • Another participant suggests clarifying whether x and y are vectors or scalars, recommending the removal of the Dot[] function if they are scalars.
  • A participant confirms that they intended to use symbolic vector derivatives, noting the limitations of Mathematica in handling such cases.
  • One participant proposes a method for deriving the equation as presented, interpreting the 1's as identity matrices or Kronecker deltas, and provides a mathematical expression for the derivative.
  • The mathematical formulation includes the use of partial derivatives and presents the result in both scalar and matrix forms, suggesting a way to verify the result in Mathematica for any dimension.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the terms or the handling of vector derivatives in Mathematica. Multiple viewpoints and approaches are presented, indicating ongoing uncertainty and debate.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in Mathematica's ability to handle arbitrary n-dimensional vector derivatives, as well as the potential confusion arising from notation that may imply different mathematical operations.

pholvey
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Hi everyone,

Given the attached input and result, I'm confused as to how to interpret the 1.1, x.1, and y.1 terms in the solution. Does this mean I'm supposed to dot 1 into 1? How does that work? Any help is appreciated. Of course, x and y are vectors (not that it matters but they're xyz coordinates). Thanks for any help!

pholvey
 

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Do you mean to have a vector derivative or are x and y scalars (normal variables)?

If you don't, then remove the Dot[] - ie type "x y" or "x*y" instead of "x.y".

If you do mean to have symbolic vector derivatives, then you're in trouble, because Mathematica does't know how to do that for arbitrary n-dimensional vectors.
 
Hey Simon,

Ya, I did mean to have symbolic vector derivatives. Unfortunate that Mathematica doesn't know how to handle them...
 
Just for kicks though, how would you go about working out the derivative of the equation as it is shown in the attachment?
 
Well, if you interpret the 1's as Identity matrices / Kronecker Delta's, then it's basically correct.

Let's drop the extranious stuff and just take the derivative
ans = ∂xy(x.y + c)2
where ∂x is the partial derivative with respect to x and c is a constant.

So,
ansij = ∂xiyj(x.y + c)2
ansij = 2 ∂xi(xj(x.y + c))
ansij = 2 δij(x.y + c) + 2 y_i x_j

Written in vector/matrix form this is
ans = 2 I (x.y+c) + 2 y xT
where I is the identity matrix and y xT is one way of writing the outer product.

You can check this in Mathematica for any particular dimension using something like

Code:
In[1]:= With[{n = 14},
          X = Array[x, {n}];
          Y = Array[y, {n}];
          II = IdentityMatrix[n];]

In[2]:= D[(X.Y + c)^2, {X}, {Y}] == 2 (II (X.Y + c) + {Y}\[Transpose].{X}) // Expand

Out[2]= True
 
Last edited:

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