Help trying to derive transfer function

In summary, the conversation is about deriving the transfer function for a circuit and the attempt at solving it using the nodal method. The output voltage is determined by the open loop voltage gain of the opamp and the input impedance at the nodes. After setting up and solving a system of equations, the final result for the transfer function is achieved.
  • #1
xt3rmin8
1
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Homework Statement


I am trying to derive the transfer function for the circuit (figure 6). I have what the final transfer function is supposed to be (figure 7) but I can't derive it.



Homework Equations


((v2+) - 12)/12k + (v2+)/12k + ((v2+) - v1)/c2= 0

(v2-)/c1 + ((v2-) - Vout)/15k = 0

v1=A(v2+ - v2-)

The Attempt at a Solution


I have gotten up to the point in figure 9 but then i am stuck. Any help would be appreciated.
figure 6.JPG

figure 7.JPG

figure 8.JPG

 
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  • #2
To use the term "transfer function" is a little ambiguous here. Normally, given an opamp circuit like this, one would want the ratio Vout/Vin, and would call it a "transfer function".

In this case, if you apply a voltage source, Vin, at the node In, the feedback will be shorted to ground by the zero output impedance of a voltage source, and the output voltage of opamp U2 will just be A2*Vin, where A2 is the open loop voltage gain in U2.

What does make sense, however, is to assume that the input is a current. Then the ratio Vout/Iin is what one would like to calculate.

If we calculate the input input impedance, Zin, at V1+, then we can derive:

Vout/Iin = A2*Zin, as A2 and A1 approach infinity.

We can use V1+, V2+ and V2- as nodes with the nodal method of circuit analysis. Denote the voltages at those nodes as V1, V2 and V3. To find Zin, we can inject a current of 1 amp at node A1+; then the voltage there will be equal to the impedance at that node. Setting the open loop gains of both opamps to A, and summing currents at those nodes, we get three equations.

(1/R3 + (1-A)/R4)*V1 + (-A/R3)*V2 + A/R3*V3 = 1

0*V1 + (1/R2 + (1-A)*s*C2)*V2 + (A*s*C2)*V3 = 0

(-A/R1)*V1 + 0*V2 + (1/R1 + s*C1)*V3 = 0

I left some terms multiplied by zero for clarity.

Solve this system and multiply the result for V1 by A, then take the limit of this expression as A approaches infinity.

When I do all this, I get exactly the final result for H(s) given in your image.
 
  • #3



I understand your struggle with deriving the transfer function for this circuit. It can be a complex and time-consuming process. My advice would be to carefully review the equations and try to simplify them as much as possible. Additionally, it may be helpful to consult with your peers or a professor for guidance and clarification. Sometimes, a fresh perspective can make all the difference. Good luck with your derivation!
 

1. What is a transfer function?

A transfer function is a mathematical representation of the relationship between the input and output of a system. It describes the output of a system in terms of its input, and is commonly used in control systems and signal processing.

2. How do I derive a transfer function?

The process of deriving a transfer function depends on the type of system and the information available. In general, it involves using mathematical techniques such as Laplace transforms, block diagrams, and equations of motion to express the input-output relationship in terms of transfer function variables.

3. What kind of systems can be described by transfer functions?

Transfer functions can be used to describe a wide range of systems, including mechanical, electrical, hydraulic, and thermal systems. Any system that has an input and output can be represented by a transfer function.

4. What are the benefits of using transfer functions?

Transfer functions provide a convenient and efficient way to analyze and design control systems. They allow for easy visualization of the input-output relationship and can be used to predict the behavior of a system under different conditions. They also allow for the use of advanced control techniques such as feedback and feedforward control.

5. Are there any limitations to using transfer functions?

While transfer functions are a powerful tool for understanding and designing control systems, they do have some limitations. They are based on linear system assumptions and may not accurately represent nonlinear systems. Additionally, they do not take into account external disturbances or system uncertainties, so they may not always accurately predict the behavior of a real-world system.

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