Help Understanding Biot-Savart Law Issue

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the Biot-Savart Law in the context of electromagnetism, specifically focusing on parameterizing a current loop and the derivation of the differential length element, dl. Participants are exploring the geometric and mathematical interpretations of tangent vectors related to circular paths.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster expresses confusion about the derivation of dl and its relation to arc lengths, questioning the role of sine and cosine in this context. Some participants clarify the geometric representation of a circle and the differentiation process involved in finding tangent vectors.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the geometric interpretation of tangent vectors and the relationship between the parameterization of a circle and the differential length element. There appears to be a productive exchange of ideas, although no consensus has been reached on the original poster's specific confusion.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the framework of electromagnetism and are addressing specific steps in the derivation process, which may involve assumptions about the geometry of the current loop and the definitions of the variables involved.

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I've been looking at my electromagnetism lecture notes I have been given and am trying to make sense of a step made in parameterising a current loop.

I am really confused about the part where dl is first state. I have no idea how the 0, sine and cosine got there. I suspect that it's something to do with arc lengths, however. Although I'm not 100% sure.

In short, I need help, desperately.
 

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Well for starters, consider a circle of radius r drawn on a two-dimensional graph, centered at the origin. Do you understand that the circle can be described as the set of points
[tex](r\cos\theta, r\sin\theta)[/tex]
for [itex]0 \leq \theta \leq 2\pi[/itex]?
 
diazona said:
Well for starters, consider a circle of radius r drawn on a two-dimensional graph, centered at the origin. Do you understand that the circle can be described as the set of points
[tex](r\cos\theta, r\sin\theta)[/tex]
for [itex]0 \leq \theta \leq 2\pi[/itex]?

I understand that part with no difficulties. It explains the first step in which point rc is denoted.

It's just the second stage that I'm not seeing clearly. It looks like a(0, -sin[tex]\theta[/tex], cos[tex]\theta[/tex]) is arrived at by differentiation of rc, but I cannot make the connection between doing that and finding dl.
 
Last edited:
there are a couple of ways to look at this.

the easiest is probably that dl is a tangent vector to the
path that the current takes. and if we have a function
r(t) = (x(t), y(t), z(t)) then the tangent vector is given
by r'(t) = (x'(t), y'(t), z'(t)).


more geometrically we can guess what the tangent vector
should look like. it's length should be the "infinitessimal" arc
so [itex]a d\phi[/itex] and should be pointing in the direction
the current is going. a unit vector pointing to the spot on the
circle is (0, cos, sin), so a unit vector tangent to the circle is
+/- (0, -sin, cos) where we pick the sign to match the direction
the current is going.

how did i know to pick (0, -sin, cos)? well here's an argument.
for points on the circle r^2 = a^2, so we differentiate to see
[itex]r(\phi) \cdot \frac{dr}{d\phi} = 0[/itex] so that r is perpendicular to
[itex]\frac{dr}{d\phi}[/itex]. then we only need to guess something that's
perpendicular...
 
qbert said:
there are a couple of ways to look at this.

the easiest is probably that dl is a tangent vector to the
path that the current takes. and if we have a function
r(t) = (x(t), y(t), z(t)) then the tangent vector is given
by r'(t) = (x'(t), y'(t), z'(t)).


more geometrically we can guess what the tangent vector
should look like. it's length should be the "infinitessimal" arc
so [itex]a d\phi[/itex] and should be pointing in the direction
the current is going. a unit vector pointing to the spot on the
circle is (0, cos, sin), so a unit vector tangent to the circle is
+/- (0, -sin, cos) where we pick the sign to match the direction
the current is going.

how did i know to pick (0, -sin, cos)? well here's an argument.
for points on the circle r^2 = a^2, so we differentiate to see
[itex]r(\phi) \cdot \frac{dr}{d\phi} = 0[/itex] so that r is perpendicular to
[itex]\frac{dr}{d\phi}[/itex]. then we only need to guess something that's
perpendicular...

Thank you so much for the help. Your reply explains the solution really well.
 

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