Help with finding normal modes of a bar swinging on a string

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a bar of mass m and length l attached to a string of the same length, swinging back and forth. The objective is to find the normal modes of oscillation using principles from Lagrangian mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use the angles of the string and bar as generalized coordinates to derive coupled differential equations. They express uncertainty about determining the translational kinetic energy and the relationship between the angles and the rotational kinetic energy.
  • Some participants suggest calculating the coordinates of the center of mass in terms of the angles to find the kinetic energy.
  • Further questions arise regarding the definition of angular velocity in the context of multiple angles and its implications for the rotational kinetic energy.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different methods to express kinetic energy and clarify the relationships between the angles. Guidance has been offered regarding the calculation of coordinates and the definition of angular velocity, but no consensus has been reached on the overall approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of Lagrangian mechanics and the definitions of kinetic energy in a system with multiple degrees of freedom. There is a focus on ensuring the correct representation of motion and energy in the equations being developed.

BiotFartLaw
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Homework Statement


A bar with mass m and length l is attached at one end to a string (also length l) and is swinging back and forth. Find the normal modes of oscillation.

Homework Equations


L=T-U, and the Lagrange-euler equation, I=(1/12)ml^2

The Attempt at a Solution


So my idea is this. Use the two angles \theta (angle of string from the vertical) and \phi (angle of the bar from the vertical) as the generalized coordinates and set up a Lagrangian to get two (probably coupled) differential equations. THen I'm guessing two different eigenfrequencies will pop out when I solve them.

My problem is that I'm not sure what the (translational) kinetic energy is. (The rotational would just be I*ω^2 and this ω^2 would, in the end, give me the two frequencies [?]) I've tried finding \dot{x} and dot{y} using sines and cosines of the angles, but when I do (and I make appropriate approximations) I'm left with no dot{\theta} or dot{\phi}terms which doesn't seem right.
But I'm also not sure if it's as simple as T=ml^2(dot{\theta}+dot{phi}).

Thanks
 
Last edited:
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The easiest thing to do is simply write down the x and y coordinates of the center of mass of the rod in terms of the two angles and then calculate ##\frac{1}{2}(\dot{x}^2+\dot{y}^2)##.
 
Thanks. A new question though:

What is ω (from the rotational KE) in terms of the two angles? Usually \omega = dot{\theta}. But that's only for one angle. Because if ω isn't in terms of the angle(s) then the rotational KE drops out when you take the derivatives for L which doesn't seem right.

Thanks again.
 
From the way you defined the angles, you should have ##\omega=\dot{\phi}##, right? Changing that angle corresponds to the bar rotating whereas changing ##\theta## only causes translation of the bar.
 

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