Help with Initial Value Problem: Troubleshooting Integration and Antiderivatives

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around an initial value problem involving integration and antiderivatives. The problem is presented as a differential equation with a specific initial condition, and participants are exploring various methods to solve it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss rearranging the equation and express uncertainty about integrating both sides. There are attempts to find antiderivatives, with some questioning the correctness of their approaches. Substitution methods are suggested, and participants share their thought processes regarding potential solutions.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on substitution techniques, while others are still grappling with integration challenges. There is a recognition of the complexity of the problem, and multiple interpretations of the integration steps are being explored without a clear consensus on the final solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note difficulties with specific integrals and the implications of initial conditions. There is mention of a textbook answer that raises further questions about the relationship between the variables in the context of the problem.

Nayr
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I need some help with an initial value problem. It looked pretty easy at a glance, but I've ended up spending over 3 hours on this one problem.The problem is as follows:

(e^(-y)+1)(sin(x) = (1+cos(x)) dy/dx

With y(0) = 0.

I rearranged the equation to get

sin(x) / (1+cos(x)) dx = 1 / (e^(-y)+1) dy

But at this point, I can't figure out how to integrate the two equations. I'm fairly (but not entirely) sure that the antiderivative of the y side is simply ln(e^(y)+1), but I'm at a loss for the x side. Is there something simple I'm missing, or did I go about the entire problem incorrectly?

Edit:
Moments after posting this, I realized that the antiderivative of sin(x) / (cos(x) +1) is (cos(x)+1)^-1+C. I'll see where I can go from there and edit if I get anything out of it.

Re-Edit:
Nope, actually, that was pretty dumb. Just realized that the 1+cos(x) would have to be squared under the denominator for that to be true. Back to square 1! Perhaps it's -ln|1+cos(x)|? But I think you can't do that with trig functions...
 
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Nayr said:
Re-Edit:
Nope, actually, that was pretty dumb. Just realized that the 1+cos(x) would have to be squared under the denominator for that to be true. Back to square 1! Perhaps it's -ln|1+cos(x)|? But I think you can't do that with trig functions...

That, in fact, is perfectly ok. For the other side think about doing a substitution.
 
Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Now it's the x side that's cleared up and the y side that I'm stuck on. I'll go through the substitution loops and see what I get...

Hm. Doesn't really seem like I can get a clean substitution... Gonna keep at it, though.

I think I have it. Ended up with y = ln(1+cos(x)) + C, with C = ln(2)
 
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To integrate sin(x)/(cos(x)+1) dx, let u= cos(x)+1, so that du= -sin(x)dx.

To integrate 1/(e-x+ 1) dx, let u= e-x+ 1, so that du= -e-x dx. e-x= u- 1: du= -(u-1)dx so dx= -1/(u-1) du. 1/(e-x+ 1)dx= 1/(u(u-1)) du.
 
Thank you very much! The substitutions really help to put things into perspective.

However... I am now having an embarrassing amount of trouble integrating 1/(u(u-1)) du.

I think it comes out to ln(u/u+1)), but when I try to expand and then unsubstitute, one of my variables cancels itself out.

The answer given in the back of the book is (1 + cos(x))(e^(y) + 1) = 4. I tried working backwards from there, but to no avail. What I'm not sure of is how the exponential y becomes positive while staying grouped with the +1. Not sure if what I just said makes sense, but after spending 6 nonconsecutive hours on this one problem today, my brains are turning to mush...
 
Nayr said:
However... I am now having trouble integrating 1/(u(u-1)) du.

Break it into partial fractions,

[tex]\frac{A}{u} + \frac{B}{u-1}[/tex]
 
Aaaah! I knew that there was something that I'd forgotten! I haven't used partial fractions since last year, so it just slipped my mind... Thank you so much!
 

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