Help with Recurrence Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a recurrence equation related to calculating rotations at joints in multi-storey steel structures. Participants explore methods for solving this equation, particularly focusing on iterative approaches and initial value assumptions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding the recurrence equation presented in a book on multi-storey steel structures and seeks assistance.
  • Another participant notes that typical recurrence relations require preceding values and suggests using the iterative formula for calculations.
  • A different participant mentions that the situation resembles computational fluid dynamics, where values depend on surrounding points, indicating a need for iterative convergence based on boundary conditions.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding assumptions made at even-numbered joints, where it is stated that certain values are equal, and initial values are derived from these assumptions.
  • Participants discuss the process of alternating calculations for odd and even joints until convergence is achieved, indicating a complex understanding of the iterative process involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the nature of the recurrence equation or the best methods for solving it. Multiple viewpoints and uncertainties remain regarding the assumptions and iterative techniques involved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the recurrence equation due to varying interpretations of its structure and the assumptions made for initial values. The discussion reflects a lack of clarity on the mathematical steps required for convergence.

Tygra
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TL;DR
Equation that calculates joint rotations in a multi-storey structure
Hi there,

I am going through a book on multi-storey steel structures and I have come to a chapter that gives approximate methods to calculate rotations at the joints (The intersecting members) of a rigid frame. There is a recurrence equation that computes the rotations and this is given below:

equation.png


The book mentions a few strategies to solve this equation. However, I am finding it quite difficult. The book mentions that you can use iterative methods and that you can start by approximating theta(i) as:

1716036446853.png


Is there anybody that can help with this, please?

Many thanks.
 
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I've never seen a recurrence formula like the one you showed. In all of the recurrence relations I've seen, to get the n-th value in the chain, you need one or more of the preceding values, plus a starting value or values. For example, a common recurrence relation for factorial numbers is given by ##n! = n \cdot (n - 1)!##, with ##1! = 1##.
Personally, I would use the iterative formula you wrote for ##\theta_i## to calculate as many terms in the sequence as you need.
 
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Hi Mark44,

I have no experience with reccurence relations. Its just the book called it that.

Would you be so kind to a have a read through the section of the book to see if it becomes more clear to you. Here are some images of the section. Read from equation (2.23) for the first image.



20240518_160403.jpg


20240518_160456.jpg


20240518_160507.jpg


If you are strunggling to read the text I can manually type out the section if you like?

Many thanks
 
Mark44 said:
I've never seen a recurrence formula like the one you showed. In all of the recurrence relations I've seen, to get the n-th value in the chain, you need one or more of the preceding values, plus a starting value or values. For example, a common recurrence relation for factorial numbers is given by ##n! = n \cdot (n - 1)!##, with ##1! = 1##.
Personally, I would use the iterative formula you wrote for ##\theta_i## to calculate as many terms in the sequence as you need.
Good point! This looks more like the situation with computational fluid dynamics, where the value at each point (i'th) depends on all surrounding values. That requires iteratively converging to a solution that is all compatible and consistent. I have no experience with those techniques, but I am sure that the solution depends on the initial values at all the boundary points. In this case, it would include assumptions about the initial values at both the bottom and top story.
 
Last edited:
Hi FactChecker,

well it does say in the book at even numbered joints (joint 2, 4...etc) the assumption is made that theta(i-1) = theta(i) = theta(i+1) and that it followws that:

1716056009685.png



It goes on to say that the initial values are obtained from the above formula (at even numbered joints). Next, the odd numbered joints for the first approximations are calculated from:

1716056506111.png

Next, improved values can be calculated at even numbered joints from this equation. Lastly, it says the equation is then used alternately for the set of both odd and even numbered joints until a satisfactory degree of convergence is achieved.

This is quite double dutch to me. I really need some help with it.
 

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