Help with Twin Paradox: Understand Contradiction

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    Paradox Twin paradox
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the twin paradox in the context of special relativity, focusing on the perceived contradictions in simultaneity and the experiences of different observers (Jim, Beth, and Oscar) during Jim's journey to retrieve a mineral from a distant star. Participants explore the implications of time dilation and the relativity of simultaneity, examining how different frames of reference affect the understanding of events and their timing.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where Jim travels to Alkaid at 0.98c, leading to different time readings for Jim and Beth upon his arrival.
  • Another participant argues that Beth would not conclude Jim has arrived based on Oscar's clock reading, emphasizing the relativity of simultaneity and how events perceived in one frame do not hold in another.
  • There is a discussion about how Oscar's changing inertial frame affects his perception of simultaneous events, and whether he would conclude Jim has arrived when he jumps out of his ship.
  • Some participants express confusion about the implications of time dilation and simultaneity, questioning how events can be perceived differently by observers in different frames.
  • One participant highlights the misconception of mixing what observers see with the actual timing of events in their respective frames.
  • There is a debate over whether Jim's arrival can be simultaneously acknowledged by both Beth and Oscar, given their differing frames of reference.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the implications of simultaneity and the timing of events as experienced by different observers. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on how the frames of reference affect the understanding of Jim's journey and arrival.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding that simultaneity is not absolute and that observers in different frames will have differing perceptions of when events occur. There are unresolved questions about how the timing of events is reconciled across frames, particularly regarding the turnaround decision made by Beth.

  • #31
Orodruin said:
I would say this is the case also in classical mechanics, some events cannot be time ordered - namely events which are simultaneous.
Ah - yes, that's a better way of describing it.
 

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