Hilbert Transform, Causality, PI Controller

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the causality of the PI controller in the context of control theory, specifically examining its frequency response and relationship to the Hilbert transform. Participants explore the implications of these relationships for selecting gain parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the PI controller is a causal filter with a frequency response given by H(w) = Ki/(iw) + Kp.
  • Another participant mentions that a causal filter should satisfy the relationship H(w) = G(w) - i G_hat(w), where G_hat(w) is the Hilbert transform of G(w).
  • There is a question raised about whether this relationship restricts the selection of gain Ki, suggesting that Ki/w must be the Hilbert transform of Kp.
  • A participant asks for clarification on the context of the PI controller's application, indicating a need for more information to understand the original question.
  • One participant argues that if a PID controller is considered, it satisfies the criteria of being LTI and dependent only on current and past inputs, questioning how it could be non-causal.
  • Another participant asserts that any gain terms can be chosen without affecting the causality of the filter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Hilbert transform for gain selection in the PI controller, with some suggesting restrictions and others asserting freedom in choosing gain terms. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact relationship between the gains and causality.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions about the definitions of causality and the Hilbert transform, as well as the specific context in which the PI controller is applied. The mathematical steps connecting these concepts are not fully resolved.

angryturtle
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TL;DR
Help understanding why PI controller is causal.
I was told that PI controller is a causal filter, and has frequency response represented by H(w) = Ki/(iw)+ Kp.

I was also told that causal filter should satisfy this relationship H(w) = G(w) -i G_hat(w) where G_hat(w) is the Hilbert transform of G(w).

Does this mean that we cannot freely select gain Ki and Ki/w must be the Hilbert transform of Kp?
 
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Good afternoon. I learned the theory of automatic control. But It's hard for me to understand your question. Maybe you'll give more information? Example, for which object of control you'll plan to use PI-controller?
 
angryturtle said:
Summary: Help understanding why PI controller is causal.

I was told that PI controller is a causal filter, and has frequency response represented by H(w) = Ki/(iw)+ Kp.

I was also told that causal filter should satisfy this relationship H(w) = G(w) -i G_hat(w) where G_hat(w) is the Hilbert transform of G(w).

Does this mean that we cannot freely select gain Ki and Ki/w must be the Hilbert transform of Kp?

If you mean a PID controller, it would seem to satisfy the criteria of being LTI and dependent only on current and past inputs, no? So how could it be non-causal? If the PID characteristics could be altered real-time by itself (like in Machine Learning), then it would no longer be time-invariant, but I think that is a different situation...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_filter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
 
angryturtle said:
Summary: Help understanding why PI controller is causal.

Does this mean that we cannot freely select gain Ki and Ki/w must be the Hilbert transform of Kp?
No. You can choose any gain terms and this filter will remain causal.
 
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