Homosexuality is not a genetic issue

[shamrock5585]

so what turns this gene on? environment?

your brain when you are born is a blank slate with all the tools... maybe it is a gene that affects what sex you are attracted too... but when you are born are you attracted to any sex? I used to think girls were icky haha... i think your environment can activate your body to produce testosterone and be attracted to women and be "manly" or it could work the other way around based on what happens to you as you are being molded as a child.

 

[Monique]

so what turns this gene on? environment?

It does not need to be turned on, humans are special in that they can decide whether to act upon an urge or not.

There is something strange with gender identity, there has been a famous case in the time when doctors and psychiatrists thought that you can mold a child into an identity.

His name was David Reimer, his penis got destroyed in during a circumcision at the age of 8 months. It was decided to raise him completely as a girl, they gave him the appropriate hormones to get him through puberty.

It was an experiment that went terribly wrong, you cannot raise a boy as a girl. The sex was reassigned, after which he married and became a step-father. He ended up commiting suicide.

 

[shamrock5585]

it ever occur to you that this was one case that doesn't determine them all...

heres another...

http://www.noharmm.org/canadianboy.htm

 

[DaveC426913]

it ever occur to you that this was one case that doesn't determine them all...

heres another...

http://www.noharmm.org/canadianboy.htm

I would argue that this person fought and is still fighting their natutral tendency towards maleness. I think it supports Monique's position better than yours. IMO it's evidence for the notion that - while humans are highly adaptable to circumstances placed upon them - they do seem to have a strong gender identity instilled despite those cicumstances.

 

[shamrock5585]

when you are adapting to circumstances that you are now a girl and then you find out that you were in fact a boy... don't you think that you would become extremely confused? this is why it is so hard to get conclusions from these studies.


I am pretty sure you are sucking up information left and right in your early years and as all humans do, we ask the question "what am i?" If we somehow get this mixed up then we become very confused and things develope around this foundation we are built on. of course you will be confused when you realize you may think you are a girl but you are very different than the other girls you are around

 

[shamrock5585]

i find it farely interesting to be attracted to another sex or your own sex when you yourself don't even know what you are yet. I am not saying genes don't play a role in sexual orientation... i am just suggesting that environment solidifies it.

 

[thomasxc]

im going to say its a genetic mutation because it goes against all of evolution..if you believe in evolution..or could it be a lack or overabundance of a certain hormone or chemical? has it not been shown that certain behaviours and emtions are caused by hormone imbalances?

 

[Moonbear]

im going to say its a genetic mutation because it goes against all of evolution..if you believe in evolution..or could it be a lack or overabundance of a certain hormone or chemical? has it not been shown that certain behaviours and emtions are caused by hormone imbalances?

Hormonal control is also under genetic regulation.

 

[shamrock5585]

Hormonal control is also under genetic regulation.

yes but is it not influenced by environment?

can we all just agree that its probably both that cause homosexuality?

 

[DaveC426913]

yes but is it not influenced by environment?

can we all just agree that its probably both that cause homosexuality?

Ay, there's the rub: cause.

You see, you've been talking about things that influence the outcome. But now you're concluding that some of these things cause the outcome. And that's a completely different question.

Does nurture (versus nature) cause homosexuality? I'm puttin' my money on no.

 

[shamrock5585]

but you missing the point... I am saying both can cause... if you are born with a gene that will influence you to be a homosexual and your environment does not interject then you may become a homosexual but environment could cause you not to be... if you are born with "normal" genes you could be normal but if something drastic happens to you as a child you may become sexually different.

---Correction to your statement "But now you're concluding that some of these things cause the outcome. And that's a completely different question."

---a conclusion is not a question

 

[DaveC426913]

but you missing the point... I am saying both can cause...

I get that. I'm disagreeing.

I'm saying that this...

... if you are born with "normal" genes you could be normal but if something drastic happens to you as a child you may become sexually different.

...is not true.

---Correction to your statement "But now you're concluding that some of these things cause the outcome. And that's a completely different question."

---a conclusion is not a question

Precisely. You are drawing a conclusion that IMO is hasty. I think it is still a question.

 

[shamrock5585]

alright you are entitled to your opinion... by why do you think that is untrue?

obviously things that happen to you during your childhood can drastically alter who you are as an adult... i don't see why your sexuality would be any different!


by the way i see IMO a lot? what does that mean?

 

[thomasxc]

"in my opinion"

 

[Andy Resnick]

It does not need to be turned on, humans are special in that they can decide whether to act upon an urge or not.

There is something strange with gender identity, there has been a famous case in the time when doctors and psychiatrists thought that you can mold a child into an identity.

His name was David Reimer, his penis got destroyed in during a circumcision at the age of 8 months. It was decided to raise him completely as a girl, they gave him the appropriate hormones to get him through puberty.

It was an experiment that went terribly wrong, you cannot raise a boy as a girl. The sex was reassigned, after which he married and became a step-father. He ended up commiting suicide.

I think this is missing the point of gender *preference*. Clearly there are genetic differences between males and females. However, my experience is that children younger than about 2 don't understand (or are even aware of) the difference between male and female. What's interesting is that friends tell me they knew they were gay prior to the onset of puberty- only they didn't recognize it as a sexual preference, since the sexual drive had not yet started.

Clearly, when the brain is involved, traits are not simply genetics or environment. It would be hard to argue a genetic origin for subconscious psychological defense mechanisms, sublimated sexual desire, or the like. It's also hard to argue for enviornmental causes for strong aversion responses to (for example) genital mutilation and cropophagy since those are nearly universal.