Hooke's law, Bertrand's theorem and closed orbits

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between Hooke's law and closed orbits as described by Bertrand's Theorem. Participants explore the implications of Hooke's law in the context of orbital mechanics, specifically examining whether the resulting orbits are indeed closed.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that according to Bertrand's Theorem, the only forces that yield closed orbits are those described by Hooke's law and the attractive inverse square force.
  • Another participant attempts to derive the orbit equation from Hooke's law but expresses difficulty in solving it or demonstrating that it leads to a closed orbit.
  • Some participants propose that Hooke's law results in harmonic oscillation along each axis in the orbital plane, suggesting that the periodic nature of these oscillations contributes to closed orbits.
  • A later reply confirms the understanding that three simple harmonic motions (SHM) along three axes are periodic, thus leading to a closed orbit.
  • One participant references a visual representation of SHM orbits on currency, indicating a connection to historical interpretations of orbits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the periodic nature of the motion described by Hooke's law and its implication for closed orbits, although the initial derivation and explicit demonstration of this remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps related to deriving the orbit equation from Hooke's law, and there are assumptions about the nature of the forces and their implications for orbital mechanics that are not fully explored.

Kashmir
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Bertrand's Theorem says : the only forces whose bounded orbits imply closed orbits are the Hooke's law and the attractive inverse square force.

I'm looking at the hookes law ##f=-k r## and try to see explicitly that the orbit is indeed closed.

I use the orbit equation ##\frac{d^{2} u}{d \theta^{2}}+u=\frac{-m}{l^{2} u^{2}} f\left(\frac{1}{u}\right)## with the force given as ##f=-k r## ,therefore I get ##\frac{d^{2} u}{d \theta^{2}}+u=+\frac{mk}{l^{2} u 3}## as the equation defining the trajectory.

However neither can I solve this nor can I see that the equation implies a closed orbit.

Can you please help me.
 
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Kashmir said:
I'm looking at the hookes law ##f=-k r## and try to see explicitly that the orbit is indeed closed.

Hooke's law gives you harmonic oscillation along each axis in the orbital plane, with a period independent of max. amplitude, thus the same for both axes and equal to the orbital period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_oscillator
 
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A.T. said:
Hooke's law gives you harmonic oscillation along each axis in the orbital plane, with a period independent of max. amplitude, thus the same for both axes and equal to the orbital period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_oscillator
Thank you. I got it. We've three SHM along three axis which are periodic, hence a closed orbit.
 
Kashmir said:
We've three SHM along three axis which are periodic, hence a closed orbit.

You can see the SHM orbit on the pound note below, where they placed the sun in the middle of an elliptical orbit. Newton doesn't look too happy about this.

One%2BPound%2BNote%2Bwith%2BIsaac%2BNewton.jpg
 
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