Horizontal Photon Vertical Lift Acceleration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a horizontal photon in a vertically accelerating frame, specifically within the context of special and general relativity. Participants explore the implications of acceleration on the trajectory of light, mathematical formulations, and coordinate transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that in a vertically accelerating frame, the vertical speed of a photon increases while its horizontal speed decreases, leading to a potential vertical asymptote in its trajectory.
  • Another participant proposes calculating the trajectory directly using the world line of light in Rindler coordinates, indicating this as a good exercise.
  • One participant presents a formula for the trajectory, y(x)=c^2/a*cosh(ax/c^2), and questions its correctness.
  • A different participant describes their method of deriving the trajectory, involving relativistic principles and integration, suggesting that the photon "falls" quicker than a parabola.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about their results, noting discrepancies in their formulas while considering them potentially equivalent.
  • Another participant attempts a general relativistic approach, discussing the metric and the resulting equations, suggesting that there may be an infinite number of solutions depending on the chosen function A(y).
  • One participant emphasizes that the problem can be approached without reverting to the Einstein Field Equations, as the scenario represents a flat space-time solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and methods regarding the trajectory of the photon under acceleration, with no consensus reached on the correctness of the formulas or the approaches taken. Multiple competing views remain, particularly between special and general relativistic perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their assumptions and the dependence on specific coordinate transformations. Some results appear to lack clarity regarding their relationship to acceleration, and the discussion reflects ongoing uncertainty in the mathematical formulations presented.

jk22
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supposing a constant acceleration Vertically a horizontal incoming photon is considered. We know that in the frame of the lift the vertical speed of the photon will increase, hence its horizontal one will decrease and then the photon trajectory has a vertical asymptote ?
 
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This is not that hard to calculate directly. It is a good exercise to go through. Start with the world line of a pulse of light in the y direction. Then look up the transformation to Rindler coordinates. Apply the equations, and what is the result?
 
I got [tex]y(x)=c^2/a*cosh(ax/c^2)[/tex] is this correct ?
 
I found this by putting a the acceleration, finding the speed through the formula d(gamma v)/dt=a, then I have the orthogonal speed by the relativistic postulate that the speed of light is constant, hence vx=sqrt(c^2-vy^2). By integration I find the x and y coordinate in function of time, then it's just to express y as a function of x.

Well, this means the relativistic photon "falls" quicker than a parabola. My idea is now to compare this result with the general relativistic approach.
 
jk22 said:
I got [tex]y(x)=c^2/a*cosh(ax/c^2)[/tex] is this correct ?
I don't know. I got a different formula, but they may be equivalent.

In Minkowski coordinates in units where c=1 ##(T,X,Y,Z)=(T,X_0,T,Z_0)##. Transforming to the Rindler frame http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rindler_coordinates we get
##(x \sinh(gt), x \cosh(gt),y,z)=(x \sinh(gt),X_0,x \sinh(gt), Z_0)##
which simplifies to
##(t,x,y,z)=(t,X_0 \text{sech}(gt), X_0 \tanh(gt),Z_0)##
 
DaleSpam said:
I don't know. I got a different formula, but they may be equivalent.

In Minkowski coordinates in units where c=1 ##(T,X,Y,Z)=(T,X_0,T,Z_0)##. Transforming to the Rindler frame http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rindler_coordinates we get
##(x \sinh(gt), x \cosh(gt),y,z)=(x \sinh(gt),X_0,x \sinh(gt), Z_0)##
which simplifies to
##(t,x,y,z)=(t,X_0 \text{sech}(gt), X_0 \tanh(gt),Z_0)##

The result i got is probably wrong since this one is ##y(x)=\sqrt(x_0^2-x^2)##. It is weird that the curve does not depend on the acceleration
 
I tried a general relativistic approach and started with the metric (A(y),-1,-B(y)) for dt,dx,dy ( I suppose from symmetry that there can be only contraction depending in y where the acceleration is.

I got in vacuum a single equation . R_mu,nu=0 => B'/B=(A'^2-2AA'')/(AA')

hence there apparently exist an infinite number of solution, it suffices to choose A(y) a function and we can find B(y) such that it is a solution of the field equation ??
 
jk22 said:
I tried a general relativistic approach and started with the metric (A(y),-1,-B(y)) for dt,dx,dy ( I suppose from symmetry that there can be only contraction depending in y where the acceleration is.

I got in vacuum a single equation . R_mu,nu=0 => B'/B=(A'^2-2AA'')/(AA')

hence there apparently exist an infinite number of solution, it suffices to choose A(y) a function and we can find B(y) such that it is a solution of the field equation ??

You don't have to go back to the EFE; this is a flat space-time, so it is a vacuum solution of the EFE no matter what coordinate transformations you make. All you need to do is apply the tensor coordinate transformation to the metric written in Minkowski coordinates and you'll have the metric in your new coordinates.
 

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