How Accurate Are Seismic Estimates of Nuclear Test Yields?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Orion1
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Explosion Nuclear
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the accuracy of seismic estimates of nuclear test yields, particularly in relation to North Korea's nuclear capabilities. Participants explore the implications of seismic data, the nature of nuclear weapons, and the challenges in estimating yields from seismic events.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a video demonstrating the fluidity of the ground during underground nuclear explosions.
  • One participant inquires about the explosive yield of North Korea's new nuclear weapon, suggesting it is likely in the kiloton range.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about North Korea's development of thermonuclear weapons, positing that they likely possess only fission-based weapons.
  • There are claims that North Korea's weapons would have yields similar to early U.S. atomic bombs, estimated at 10-20 kilotonnes.
  • Participants discuss the seismic monitoring of North Korea's tests, with one noting a detected magnitude 3.6 quake and relating it to potential yields based on seismic data.
  • One participant calculates the yield of the first North Korean test at 1 kiloton, while another suggests it may be around 550 tons or approximately 0.5 kiloton.
  • There is a discussion about the complexities involved in estimating nuclear yields from seismic data, highlighting the influence of local geology on seismic wave propagation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the yield of North Korea's nuclear weapons and the reliability of seismic estimates, indicating that multiple competing views remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the formulas for estimating yields from seismic data may not be very useful due to the significant impact of local geological conditions on seismic wave propagation.

Orion1
Messages
961
Reaction score
3


I thought this would be an interesting video for physics majors to watch:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/28850/Underground_Nuclear_Explosions.html"
[/Color]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Engineering news on Phys.org
That demonstrates how fluid the ground really is. Some of those displacements are fairly substantial.
 

I am enquiring as to what the explosive yield is for the new North Korea nuclear weapon?
[/Color]
 
Last edited:
I believe the yield is likely in the kT range, particularly if it is only nuclear, i.e. fissile. I don't believe NK has developed a thermonuclear weapon - well hopefully not - but that would be the next step.
 
Orion1 said:
I am enquiring as to what the Megaton yield is for the new North Korea nuclear weapon?
[/Color]
Orion1,

I would also concur with Astronuc.

Thermonuclear weapons, also known as "hydrogen bombs" or "H-bombs" can have
yields that are in the Megatonnes.

That's NOT what the North Koreans have, or claim to have. They claim to have
"A-bombs"; the type of weapons the USA developed in World War II and dropped
on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

It takes a "A-bomb" to trigger an "H-bomb"; so you have to develop one before the
other.

As Astronuc points out, "A-bombs" have yields measured in "kilotonnes".

The bomb the USA dropped on Hiroshima was about 15 kilotonnes, and the
bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki, and its twin tested at Trinity; were about
20 kilotonnnes.

Any weapons developed by a nascent nuclear weapons state like
North Korea would probably have yields similar to the first weapons
developed by the United States; i.e. 10-20 kilotonnes.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
Last edited:
Orion1 said:
I thought this would be an interesting video for physics majors to watch:

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/28850/Underground_Nuclear_Explosions.html"
[/Color]
What were those pre-fab buildings on stilts? Looked like they survived pretty well.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i don't get it? the world is against north korea even getting a nuclear research program and the UN hassels them when the UN has who knows how many nukes! and anyways NK isn't stupid enough to nuke anyone especailly when they know that their coutry could be leved in less than a week by all the nukes the UN has
 
The UN does not have nuclear weapons. The nuclear weapons are under the control of the those nations which have the capability of designing and manufacturing them.
 

South Korea's seismic monitoring center alleges there was indeed a magnitude 3.6 quake.

A seismic wave of magnitude 3.58 had been detected in the district of Gilju in North Hamkyung province.

h = -2,000 meters (below the surface).

M - Richters
3.5 = 178 metric tons
4.0 = 1 kiloton

1 kt TNT explosion is roughly equivalent to a magnitude 4 earthquake.
1-kiloton nuclear explosion would produce a magnitude in the range of about 4.0 to 4.5 on the Richter scale

I calculate the first NK test yield at 1 kiloton.

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_magnitude_scale
[/Color]
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Orion1 said:
I calculate the first NK test yield at 1 kiloton.

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_magnitude_scale
[/Color]
Orion1,

The current reports are that the NK weapon was about 550 tons or ~1/2 kiloton.

As the Wikipedia article you stated states at the end; these formulas are not very
useful for estimating yields. The local geology has a big impact on how much
the energy of the bomb couples into seismic waves, and how those waves propagate.

Estimating the yield of a nuclear test from seismic data is much more complex
than what is found in the Wikipedia article, and they acknowledge that.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 66 ·
3
Replies
66
Views
26K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 52 ·
2
Replies
52
Views
11K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K