How altitude effects gas flow rate or not?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the effects of altitude on gas flow rates, specifically examining volumetric and mass flow rates under varying atmospheric pressures. Participants explore the implications of choked flow conditions in a setup involving a variable flow restrictor connected to a constant oxygen source.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a setup with two conditions: standard atmospheric pressure and a lower pressure at altitude, questioning how the density ratio affects flow output.
  • Another participant asserts that if the flow is choked, downstream pressure will not influence the flow rate.
  • A different participant agrees with the choked flow assertion but notes that the geometry of the exit affects the flow, indicating that changes in exit area or upstream pressure are necessary to alter mass flux.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about their experimental results, suggesting that flow increases with absolute pressure ratio up to certain altitudes, challenging the assumption that downstream pressure does not affect flow when above a specific pressure ratio.
  • There is a request for clarification on the effects of converging and diverging flows on choked flow, along with a question regarding the classification of the flow restriction as a thin plate orifice.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of altitude and pressure on flow rates, with some asserting that choked flow conditions negate the influence of downstream pressure, while others question the validity of this assumption based on experimental observations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of geometry on flow characteristics.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific conditions and geometries that may influence flow characteristics, but there are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about choked flow and the effects of altitude on gas dynamics.

jango
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I am considering the effects on volumetric and mass flow rate for two conditions:

Condition 1) 1013mBar, 21C (Air density as per)
Condition 2) 700mBar (10,000ft) 21C (Air density as per)

Setup: A variable flow restrictor is connected to a constant source of oxygen at 50 psig. The variable flow restrictor is adjusted to give a volumetric flow rate of 10 L/min for condition 1.

Question: The same setup is now in condition 2. What happens to the flowrate?

Note 1: The variable restrictor is not adjusted when at condition 2. It remains as it was set for condition 1.
Note 2: It appears that the flow is 'choked' as the difference between upstream pressure and downstream pressure stays within the limits required to be in the choked state (Ratio1.9±0.2)

I'm unsure how the density ratio for the two conditions could affect the flow output?
 
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If the flow is choked (and that certainly appears to be), the downstream pressure will not affect the flow rate.
 
What cjl says is certainly true, though it will depend on the geometry of your exit. If it is simply a straight section or a converging section then your flow in both situations is choked (Mach 1 at the region of smallest area) and therefore lowering the downstream pressure is not going to change the mass flux. Only changing the area of your exit or your upstream pressure would change your mass flux.

If your exit is diverging, you would have additional work to do since at least a portion of the flow in the nozzle will be supersonic and the downstream pressure required to choke the flow will change.
 
Thanks cjl & boneh3ad.

I thought the restriction was choked, but experimental results suggest otherwise.

The geometry is as follows:

The restriction is created by an annulus made up by a tapered shaft in a plain hole.
The hole is 1.58mm in diameter.
The plate thickness is 0.85mm.
The shaft within the hole tapers from approx diameter 1.50mm to 1.49mm within the o.85mm thickness.

It would appear that the flow increases directly proportional to the absolute pressure ratio up to altitudes of 20,000ft (465mBar).

This surprised me because I was under the impression that as long as the abs pressure ratio was above about 2, the downstream pressure would not change the flow.

Can you explain a little more about the converging / diverging effects on choked flow? From the restriction description, is this considered a thin plate orifice?

Thanks in advance.
 

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