How can a black hole evaporate instantly if speed of gravity is c?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of black hole evaporation and the implications of gravitational effects on observers at a distance. Participants explore the relationship between the speed of gravity, the perception of events near a black hole, and the nature of spacetime in the context of general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how a black hole can evaporate "instantly" if gravitational changes propagate at the speed of light, suggesting that an observer far away would take billions of years to notice the evaporation.
  • Another participant clarifies that the observer is at a safe distance, but objects near the event horizon appear displaced due to spacetime bending, complicating the perception of time and distance.
  • Some participants discuss the behavior of light near the event horizon, noting that objects appear to freeze at the horizon from a distant observer's perspective.
  • A later reply suggests that even if the black hole evaporates, the gravitational influence it exerted would still affect objects traveling away from it, raising questions about the nature of gravitational force and its propagation.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential dangers of creating micro black holes, with participants expressing skepticism about the feasibility of containing such phenomena.
  • One participant challenges the claim that the observer can measure distances accurately due to the warping of spacetime, arguing that gravity affects geodesics rather than direct measurements of distance.
  • A reference to an external FAQ is provided, discussing the stretching of space near a black hole and the observer-dependent nature of this phenomenon.
  • Technical details are shared about how light cones behave near a black hole, explaining that the delay in light reaching an observer is due to the curvature of spacetime rather than just space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of black hole evaporation and the nature of gravitational effects. There is no consensus on the interpretation of how these phenomena interact with observers at a distance, and multiple competing perspectives remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in understanding due to the complexities of general relativity, including the observer-dependent nature of spacetime measurements and the unresolved implications of black hole evaporation on distant observers.

  • #31


utesfan100 said:
While the metric indicates the stretching ratio goes to infinity at the horizon, the actual distance integrated over the metric remains finite. Thus a waveform leaving the horizon at velocity c should reach an observer in finite time.

For a static black hole that doesn't evaporate, a light signal emitted from anywhere above the horizon (not *at* it) will reach an observer anywhere outside the horizon in some finite time. However, the finite time can be arbitrarily large; it can be made as large as you like by putting the emitter of the waveform closer and closer to the horizon. This is not a matter of the distance from the emitter to the observer; it's a matter of the light cones being tilted inward, so that the light takes longer to cover the distance than it would if the light cones were not tilted. One could say that the light was "moving slower than c", but I don't like that terminology because it invites a lot of confusion about whether GR is consistent with SR; in fact, the rule that "light always moves at c" simply can't be applied as-is in a curved spacetime, because there is no way to uniquely define "relative speed" for spatially separated objects. The rule in GR becomes "light always moves along the light cones", which has a unique, unambiguous definition.

For an evaporating hole, the location of the horizon changes, and the spacetime as a whole is not static, so things get more complicated; but the upshot, as I said in previous posts, is that you can no longer make the finite time arbitrarily large.

utesfan100 said:
2) Am I to take it that the model of evaporation is an instantaneous, uniform, symmetric burst of radiation traveling at a local speed of c?

No. Black hole evaporation is a continuous process. The hole starts with some mass M, and very slowly radiates it away, continuously, until it's all gone.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
4K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
8K
  • · Replies 67 ·
3
Replies
67
Views
6K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
4K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
6K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K