How can ampere be considered as base quantity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the classification of the ampere as a base quantity in the International System of Units (SI). Participants explore the implications of defining the ampere in relation to other quantities, such as the coulomb and time, and the practical considerations surrounding these definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the ampere, defined as a base quantity, seems to depend on the coulomb and time, suggesting it could be considered a derived unit instead.
  • Others clarify that the ampere is defined by a specific physical scenario involving parallel conductors, which establishes it as a base unit, while the coulomb is defined as an ampere-second.
  • A participant notes that both A = C/s and C = A*s are valid equations, implying that one could argue for either unit being derived from the other, but practical considerations favor the coulomb as a derived unit.
  • There is mention of a potential future redefinition of the ampere based on the constant charge of the electron, which would align with trends in the SI system towards using constants for definitions.
  • Concerns are raised about the practical difficulties in measuring the ampere, with calibrations often relying on voltage and the Hall effect instead.
  • Some participants highlight the complexities of the current definition, which involves idealized conditions such as infinite conductors and absolute vacuum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the ampere should be classified as a base or derived unit, with no consensus reached. The discussion reflects ongoing debate about the definitions and practical implications of these units.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in the current definitions, including dependencies on idealized conditions and the practical challenges of measurement accuracy.

abi.ayan
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Base Quantities are those quantities on the basics of which other quantities can be expressed.
Ampere is also a base quantity.But the unit of ampere is C/s.This shows that ampere depends on time and coulomb.It make sense to consider ampere as a derived unit and coulomb as base unit.But we don't. can anyone explain it please ?
 
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As a base unit, the "unit of the ampere" is:

that constant current which, if maintained in two straight parallel conductors of infinite length, of negligible circular cross-section, and placed 1 meter apart in vacuum, would produce between these conductors a force equal to 2 x 10-7 Newton per meter of length.

The unit of the Coulomb is one ampere-second. The coulomb depends on the second and the ampere. Not the other way around.
 
abi.ayan said:
Base Quantities are those quantities on the basics of which other quantities can be expressed.
Ampere is also a base quantity.But the unit of ampere is C/s.This shows that ampere depends on time and coulomb.It make sense to consider ampere as a derived unit and coulomb as base unit.But we don't. can anyone explain it please ?
There is an equation

A=C/s
Or
C=A*s

Both ways are equally valid ways of writing the same equation. So in principle you can equally consider the Ampere to be derived from or the Coulomb derived from the Ampere. In practice you can make a more accurate current prototype than a charge prototype, so the Coulomb is the derived unit.

In CGS units you don't even have separate units for EM, they are all derived from mass, length, and time units.
 
It is perhaps worth mentioning that it is very likely that we in a few years time (maybe 2018) will redefine the ampere by first making the electron charge a constant and they use charges/second as the definition (and realization).
This agrees with the general trend of the SI: giving constants an exact value and then somehow connect the realization/definition to time (i.e as was done for the meter). This automatically gives us higher accuracy since we can measure time much more accurately (seveal orders of magnitude) than anything else.

Also, no one actually measures the ampere anymore. All calibrations are in reality done by using the Volt (using the CODATA value for the Josephon constant) and the Ohm (Hall effect), and then Ohm's law.
The reason is -again- that voltage calbrations are extremely accurate (since they depend on time) and so is the Hall effect. The defition of the Ampere is way too awkward to be practical,
 
Especially the bits where it requires infinite conductors, absolute vacuum and wires without cross-section, I guess :)
 

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