How can I find the cleanout for my building drain?

[sevensages]

Update: the Homeowner's Association for my neighborhood has a facebook group. I asked the members of the facebook group for my neighborhood where the cleanout for the building drain is on their properties, and I got two replies that answered the question (and several other replies that do not answer the question).

One person said that her cleanout for her building drain is in her tree ring, which is in the middle of her front yard. The other person said her cleanout for her building drain is in her flower bed, which is also in the front yard, but the flower beds are right next to the houses (as opposed to the middle of the front yard). So I think my cleanout is probably buried underground in my front yard somewhere. Before I created this thread, I thought my cleanout was probably in my bard yard near my stack.

 

[berkeman]

Yikes! Buried and unmarked?

 

[sevensages]

Yikes! Buried and unmarked?

I think so.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Interesting. Both neighbors say in the front yard. That implies that the city main is on the opposite side of the house. Unless the clean-out is only concerned from that point to the street.

 

[sevensages]

Interesting. Both neighbors say in the front yard. That implies that the city main is on the opposite side of the house. Unless the clean-out is only concerned from that point to the street.

When you say, that implies that the city main is on the opposite side of the house, do you mean that that implies that the city sewer main is on the opposite side of the house?

 

[Averagesupernova]

When you say, that implies that the city main is on the opposite side of the house, do you mean that that implies that the city sewer main is on the opposite side of the house?

Uh, yeah that's what I said. To be a clean-out for the "building" as you put it, it is implied that the snake goes into the clean-out, under the house towards the city main. I would have assumed the city sewer main is under the street. Of course that could be an incorrect assumption.

 

[Lnewqban]

The 3-inch sanitary drain clean-out port is normally located at grade level, as close to the exterior wall as possible, in order to reach farther into the house, but not closer than one foot, so the plumbing snake can be easily fed also into the sewer main direction (commonly, there is a 2-way tee connecting the clean-out vertical pipe and the underground drain pipe).

Please, see:
https://up.codes/s/cleanouts-for-drain-piping

Regarding location of underground water supply, storm and sewer main pipes, could the underground layout be like this?

 

[sevensages]

Uh, yeah that's what I said.

You just wrote "city main". You did not write "city sewer main".

To be a clean-out for the "building" as you put it, it is implied that the snake goes into the clean-out, under the house towards the city main.

I am not a plumber, but if the city sewer main is under the street in front of my house, I don't see why it is impossible for the snake to go into the cleanout, and go through the building drain towards the stack, under the house AWAY from the city sewer main.

I would have assumed the city sewer main is under the street. Of course that could be an incorrect assumption.

I don't definitely know where the city sewer main is, but I think the city sewer main is probably under the street.

 

[sevensages]

The 3-inch sanitary drain clean-out port is normally located at grade level, as close to the exterior wall as possible, in order to reach farther into the house, but not closer than one foot, so the plumbing snake can be easily fed also into the sewer main direction (commonly, there is a 2-way tee connecting the clean-out vertical pipe and the underground drain pipe).

Please, see:
https://up.codes/s/cleanouts-for-drain-piping

View attachment 364481

Regarding location of underground water supply, storm and sewer main pipes, could the underground layout be like this?

View attachment 364482

Yes. The underground layout of my sewer line and water line could be like that. Indeed, I think that the underground layout of my sewer line and water line is probably like that.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I don't see why it is impossible for the snake to go into the cleanout, and go through the building drain towards the stack, under the house AWAY from the city sewer main.

Because it would not clean anything between the clean-out and the city main. Post #37 shows a solution to that problem. As I previously stated my experience is with basements. The clean-out is at the beginning of the horizontal run in that case and can extend all the way to the city sewer main.
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Whatever course you took could be well complemented by a few good books from a home improvement center or the appropriate section in a good bookstore. There are some really good books out there and some not so good books. You will have to sift through them until you understand everything.
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My state has a homeowners plumbing permit option for those who want to do their own. They supply a crude yet very effective guide concerning DVW rules. A bit confusing at first but after absorbing it all, it made a lot of sense.

 

[sevensages]

Because it would not clean anything between the clean-out and the city main.

But it would clean everything between the clean out and the stack.

Post #37 shows a solution to that problem.

Yes. Or the perhaps one could feed the snake either way through the clean out.

As I previously stated my experience is with basements. The clean-out is at the beginning of the horizontal run in that case and can extend all the way to the city sewer main.
-
Whatever course you took could be well complemented by a few good books from a home improvement center or the appropriate section in a good bookstore. There are some really good books out there and some not so good books. You will have to sift through them until you understand everything.
-
My state has a homeowners plumbing permit option for those who want to do their own. They supply a crude yet very effective guide concerning DVW rules. A bit confusing at first but after absorbing it all, it made a lot of sense.

 

[gmax137]

A neighbor had their sewer line back up into the house, a huge mess. The cleanout ended up being under the front patio, which has a paver floor. The location wasn't discovered until other neighbors were consulted; they had been there when the previous owner built the patio. At least pavers are easier than jackhammering concrete.

 

[berkeman]

The location wasn't discovered until other neighbors were consulted; they had been there when the previous owner built the patio. At least pavers are easier than jackhammering concrete

What kind of a dimwit covers up a cleanout with patio pavers... Lordy.

 

[Averagesupernova]

What kind of a dimwit covers up a cleanout with patio pavers... Lordy.

The same dimwit who covers up a silcock under a deck with a composite floor. An observant individual such as myself concerning this sort of thing noticed a short piece of decking (composite, not cedar) that was not attached. It just set in there. Upon removal I noticed the silcock. Makes me wonder if the same brainiac installed another silcock over one of the window wells.

 

[gmax137]

Lordy.

Indeed!

 

[Herman Trivilino]

Before I created this thread, I thought my cleanout was probably in my bard yard near my stack.

That's likely where it is. Probably just below grade. Poke around with a shovel.

 

[Herman Trivilino]

What kind of a dimwit covers up a cleanout with patio pavers... Lordy.

Uhhh... I did that. :-). But all you have to do is remove that one paver and the cleanout is a fraction of an inch below. I've had to access it a few times and it's easy. You just have to know how to find it. :-)

 

[berkeman]

You just have to know how to find it. :-)

This. Maybe engrave that one paver with "Cleanout"...

 

[Herman Trivilino]

This. Maybe engrave that one paver with "Cleanout"...

Like the OP, my house is a slab on grade building. I really should engrave the side of the slab with "1.5' to clean out".

 

[sevensages]

That's likely where it is. Probably just below grade. Poke around with a shovel.

Please look at the photographs I posted on post #17. Notice that my concrete patio is directly below my stack. So I cannot poke around directly below my stack with a shovel because that area is concrete.

 

[Herman Trivilino]

Do you agree with me that that plastic pipe coming out of my roof is my stack?

Can't tell from photo. Can you see it from inside the attic? Does it come straight up through the wall below.

If you can determine where the stack rises into the attic through a wall top plate, look to see if that is a plumbing wall. Look inside the house at that wall and see if it's wider than a 2x4. If so, it could be a plumbing wall. Especially if that wall is behind a toilet.

Please look at the photographs I posted on post #17. Notice that my concrete patio is directly below my stack. So I cannot poke around directly below my stack with a shovel because that area is concrete.

Is there a toilet directly under that pipe coming up through the roof?

These are signs that your clean out is beneath that slab. It's tempting to saw a hole in that slab. Plumbers have a tool they use to locate buried sewer lines but unfortunately they aren't very precise. I would hate to cut a hole in the slab only to find out the pipe is only close to the hole. But if that is your only option, then you have to probe the soil under the slab through that hole, and widen the hole. That's if you get lucky.

If all that sounds too much, and I think it does, I would try to get a plumber to find where the pipe is buried next to that slab, dig to uncover it, and install a new clean out there.

I live in the Houston area so our climate doesn't require pipes to be buried very deep. Code requires clean outs be no further than 100 ft from the manhole. Mine is 120 ft. We had a blockage within 20 ft of the manhole due to tree roots that had been an issue for 20 years. We dug it out and found that pipe (thin wall) was broken by tree roots. Plumbers installed new schedule 40 pvc from the manhole back to the edge of the driveway, about 30 ft, and included a clean out that was within 100 ft of the other clean out.

 

[sevensages]

Can't tell from photo. Can you see it from inside the attic? Does it come straight up through the wall below.

If you can determine where the stack rises into the attic through a wall top plate, look to see if that is a plumbing wall. Look inside the house at that wall and see if it's wider than a 2x4. If so, it could be a plumbing wall. Especially if that wall is behind a toilet.

I have gotten to the point where I just now assume that the plastic pipe coming out of my roof in the photo on post #17 is my stack. There is no other pipe that comes out of my roof. I still don't know where the cleanout for the building drain is.

Is there a toilet directly under that pipe coming up through the roof?

Nope. My toilet is not directly under that pipe coming up through the roof.

These are signs that your clean out is beneath that slab. It's tempting to saw a hole in that slab. Plumbers have a tool they use to locate buried sewer lines but unfortunately they aren't very precise. I would hate to cut a hole in the slab only to find out the pipe is only close to the hole. But if that is your only option, then you have to probe the soil under the slab through that hole, and widen the hole. That's if you get lucky.

If all that sounds too much, and I think it does, I would try to get a plumber to find where the pipe is buried next to that slab, dig to uncover it, and install a new clean out there.

Yeah it is too much. I am not going to saw into the slab to try to find the cleanout for the building drain. I am only trying to find the cleanout for the building drain out of curiosity, for Pete's sake! It is not like I am trying to find the cleanout because I have a clog in my building drain.

I live in the Houston area so our climate doesn't require pipes to be buried very deep. Code requires clean outs be no further than 100 ft from the manhole. Mine is 120 ft. We had a blockage within 20 ft of the manhole due to tree roots that had been an issue for 20 years. We dug it out and found that pipe (thin wall) was broken by tree roots. Plumbers installed new schedule 40 pvc from the manhole back to the edge of the driveway, about 30 ft, and included a clean out that was within 100 ft of the other clean out.

Interesting.

 

[Herman Trivilino]

I am only trying to find the cleanout for the building drain out of curiosity, for Pete's sake!

Well, if you ever do have a clog finding the clean out will be the plumber's problem.

Years ago a plumber just dug a hole, broke the clay pipe, and patched it when he was done.

 

[sevensages]

Well, if you ever do have a clog finding the clean out will be the plumber's problem.

Years ago a plumber just dug a hole, broke the clay pipe, and patched it when he was done.

I still have my curiosity.

 

[Herman Trivilino]

I still have my curiosity.

Yup. Often the first question the plumber will ask is do you know where the clean out is located.

 

[sophiecentaur]

How about a different tack? The toilet could be removed (Might be a struggle if it's buried in cosmetic panelling but) and a rod could enter the sewer that way. No absolute need to go outside at all. A TV would show where everything is from within the pipes.

But curiosity may not be strong enough. You could just accept not knowing.

 

[gmax137]

How about a stethoscope, with an accomplice inside flushing toilets?
Edit typo

 

[sevensages]

How about a stethoscope, with an accomplice inside flushing toilets?
Edit typo

Where would I put the stethoscope?

 

[gmax137]

Where would I put the stethoscope?

On that concrete pad shown in post 17. Might be worth a try?

 

[Averagesupernova]

Or you could probe thought the soil in your yard to find the pipe. This is not an uncommon way to find things that are not buried very deep. Use something with a round point.