How can Newton's Laws be applied to the motion of a bus and a person on it?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Newton's Laws of Motion to the scenario of a person on a bus during acceleration and the mechanics of a rocket launch. Participants explore how these laws explain the observed phenomena of being thrown back in the bus and the forces involved in rocket propulsion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that Newton's 1st law explains why a person is thrown back when the bus accelerates, as they continue moving at the same speed until acted upon by a force.
  • Another participant agrees that Newton's 3rd law applies to the rocket's launch, stating that the rocket exerts a force on the exhaust gases, which in turn exerts an equal force back on the rocket.
  • A question is raised about whether Newton's 3rd law can be applied to the bus scenario, noting that the bus exerts a forward force while the person moves backward.
  • One participant clarifies that the person does not experience a force from the bus until they collide with the seat, at which point both the person and the bus exert forces on each other according to Newton's 3rd law.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of Newton's 1st and 3rd laws to the scenarios discussed, but there is some uncertainty regarding the timing and nature of the forces involved when the bus accelerates.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the explanations provided, particularly regarding the assumptions about forces acting on the person before they hit the seat and the relative magnitudes of forces involved.

ThomasMagnus
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Hi there, I have two simple physics questions.

One day I was on the bus, and began to wonder why I kept getting thrown to the back every time the bus accelerated. Which one of Newton's laws can be applied to this?-if any.

Another question is: When a rocket takes off, it applies a force in the opposite direction. Can this be described as Newton's 3rd law: F₁=-F₁

Thanks for the help!
 
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ThomasMagnus said:
One day I was on the bus, and began to wonder why I kept getting thrown to the back every time the bus accelerated. Which one of Newton's laws can be applied to this?-if any.
Newton's 1st law might shed some light. You tend to keep moving at the same speed in a straight line unless a force acts on you. When the bus accelerates, you tend to stay put until something pulls or pushes you along with the bus.

Another question is: When a rocket takes off, it applies a force in the opposite direction. Can this be described as Newton's 3rd law: F₁=-F₁
Yes, Newton's 3rd law applies. The rocket exerts a force on the exhaust gases it expels, which in turn exert an equal force on the rocket.
 
Could Newton's third law be applied to the bus? The bus exerts a force forward and I fly back?
 
ThomasMagnus said:
Hi there, I have two simple physics questions.

One day I was on the bus, and began to wonder why I kept getting thrown to the back every time the bus accelerated. Which one of Newton's laws can be applied to this?-if any.

Another question is: When a rocket takes off, it applies a force in the opposite direction. Can this be described as Newton's 3rd law: F₁=-F₁

Thanks for the help!

1.Newtons first law 2.yes
 
ThomasMagnus said:
Could Newton's third law be applied to the bus? The bus exerts a force forward and I fly back?

Not until you hit the back of the seat. When the bus accelerates, it doesn't apply a force to you. You simply crash into it. However, when you do hit the seat, you will apply a force against the bus and the bus will exert a force on you, but not before that.

Suppose you and the bus are at rest at 0 m/s and you are sitting forward in your seat. When the bus accelerates, it begins to have a positive velocity while you still have 0 velocity since the force of the tires and engine are acting on the bus but not you. Soon after, the bus seat will hit you. At that point, the bus acts with a force on you that makes you accelerate until your velocity matches the bus velocity. Due to Newton's 3rd law, you also exert a force on the seat in the other direction decreasing the acceleration of the bus. However, since the bus is powered by a giant engine and you are very small compared to the bus, the force acting on the bus due to you hitting it is not noticable to the bus.
 
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