How Can Redshift be Expressed as a Function of DM in an Empty Universe Model?

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The discussion focuses on deriving a function that expresses redshift as a function of distance modulus (DM) in an empty universe model (Omega=0). Participants share resources, including supernova data and academic papers, to aid in plotting the Omega=0 curve. The conversation shifts to the nature of closed and open universes, with debates on the implications of spatial curvature and the definitions of manifolds in general relativity. There is a consensus that while the universe may appear open locally, it could still be closed globally, depending on mass and energy distributions. Ultimately, the participants conclude that exploring the properties of an empty universe may be more theoretical than applicable to our reality, with discussions on the nature of space-time near the Big Bang.
  • #31
George Jones said:
All compact 4-dimensional Lorentzian manifolds have closed timelike curves

A closed timelike geodesic is problematic. I’m thinking that any current spacetime manifold should be similar to a manifold near the Big Bang. Topology does not change with time.
 
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  • #32
Maybe time orientable is a locale property, which may not necessarily exclude the possibility of closed timelike geodesics?
 
  • #33
Imax said:
Maybe time orientable is a locale property, which may not necessarily exclude the possibility of closed timelike geodesics?
Well, the arrow of time is most likely a local property, but that doesn't make closed timelike curves any more sensible.
 
  • #34
Chalnoth said:
Well, the arrow of time is most likely a local property, but that doesn't make closed timelike curves any more sensible.

If we asume that the arrow of time is a local property within a compact Lorentzian manifold, then closed timelike geodesics may be alllowed, and events could repeat.
 
  • #35
Imax said:
If we asume that the arrow of time is a local property within a compact Lorentzian manifold, then closed timelike geodesics may be alllowed, and events could repeat.
Well, a compact Lorentzian manifold has closed timelike curves. That's one reason why our universe isn't one.
 
  • #36
Chalnoth said:
Well, a compact Lorentzian manifold has closed timelike curves. That's one reason why our universe isn't one.

I don’t necessarily agree, but I think Aztral already go the answer he/she was looking for. What I was trying to say is that maybe there is no such thing as an empty universe. Trying to calculate properties of such a universe may be a nice exercise in mathematics or “theoretical” physics, but it may have nothing to do with reality. CMB data seems to fit better with a finite model of the universe than with an infinite model, and that seems to make sense to me.

I can see two possibilities at or near the Big Bang:

1) Space-time was infinite and somewhere within that infinite space was a very small volume (a singularity?) that contained the mass/energy of the entire universe.

2) Space-time was so badly curved (i.e. mass can bend space-time in GR) that space-time itself was finite around this volume/singularity.

My $ is on #2. Excluding possible quantum effects, topology does not change with time.
 

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