How Can RMS Current Be Represented as a Phasor?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the representation of RMS current as a phasor in AC circuits, exploring the relationship between RMS values, phasors, and the behavior of current and voltage in inductive circuits. Participants examine the implications of using RMS values in phasor notation and the conditions under which these representations are valid.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how RMS current, which represents an effective value, can be treated as a phasor, given that it does not change over time.
  • Others argue that while voltage and current in AC circuits can be represented as phasors, the RMS value itself is merely a magnitude and not inherently a phasor.
  • A participant suggests that the phase angle in an inductive circuit indicates that current lags behind voltage, which complicates the relationship between RMS values and phasors.
  • There is mention of a homework question that presents RMS current in phasor form, prompting discussions about notation and context in textbooks.
  • Some participants note that RMS values can be seen as scaling factors for AC voltages and currents, but this does not alter the angular relationships represented by phasors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether RMS current can be considered a phasor. Some assert that it is simply a magnitude, while others suggest that it can be represented in phasor notation under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of context and notation when discussing RMS values and phasors, indicating that interpretations may vary based on specific textbooks and conventions.

Zheng_
Messages
24
Reaction score
1
If RMS current is equal to the value of the direct current that would produce the same power dissipation in a resistive load, how can it be phasor?
 
Last edited:
Engineering news on Phys.org
In which type of circuits you have encountered complex voltages...
i think in AC circuits the elements may not dissipate energy but act as storage devices and are related by phase difference, there in the analysis the instant voltages may be complex.
 
I
drvrm said:
In which type of circuits you have encountered complex voltages...
i think in AC circuits the elements may not dissipate energy but act as storage devices and are related by phase difference, there in the analysis the instant voltages may be complex.
I'm sorry I mean RMS currect, i'd edited the title and yeah I mean AC circuit
 
Zheng_ said:
I

I'm sorry I mean complexcurrect, i'd edited the title and yeah I mean AC circuit
What I'm asking is RMS currect. I know that voltage and currect in AC circuit can be phasor, but why RMS current, which descibe a effective value, can be a phasor? It wouldn't change its value as the time is passing right?
 
Zheng_ said:
What I'm asking is RMS currect. I know that voltage and currect in AC circuit can be complex number, but why RMS current, which descibe a effective value, can be a phasor?

the phase angle contains z the reactance which is complex

Suppose we have an inductive circuit, and here the voltage and current waves are not in-phase. Whenever a changing voltage is applied to an inductive coil, a “back” e.m.f. is produced by the coil due to its self-inductance. This self-inductance opposes and limits any changes to the current flowing in the coil.Further the effect of this back e.m.f. is that the current wave form reaches its peak value some time after that of the voltage. The current always “lags” behind the voltage .
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Zheng_
drvrm said:
the phase angle contains z the reactance which is complex

Suppose we have an inductive circuit, and here the voltage and current waves are not in-phase. Whenever a changing voltage is applied to an inductive coil, a “back” e.m.f. is produced by the coil due to its self-inductance. This self-inductance opposes and limits any changes to the current flowing in the coil.Further the effect of this back e.m.f. is that the current wave form reaches its peak value some time after that of the voltage. The current always “lags” behind the voltage .
Ok thanks
 
But who said that the RMS value of the current is a phasor? You represent the variable quantities (current, voltage) by phasors.
The RMS value is just this, a value. Of course, you can take the magnitude of the phasor representing the current equal to the RMS value.

Same as the magnitude of the velocity vector is equal to the speed. This does not make speed a vector.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: berkeman
nasu said:
But who said that the RMS value of the current is a phasor? You represent the variable quantities (current, voltage) by phasors.
The RMS value is just this, a value. Of course, you can take the magnitude of the phasor representing the current equal to the RMS value.

Same as the magnitude of the velocity vector is equal to the speed. This does not make speed a vector.
But..one of the question in my homework let that I rms = 2∠10°?
 
That may be but it's hard to say what they mean without context. It may be just a notation to say that the magnitude of the phasor is equal to the RMS value and has a phase angle of 10 degrees.
The conventions for notations depend on the specific textbook. Read the chapter about phasors and pay attention to the meanings of the notations.
 
  • #10
nasu said:
That may be but it's hard to say what they mean without context. It may be just a notation to say that the magnitude of the phasor is equal to the RMS value and has a phase angle of 10 degrees.
The conventions for notations depend on the specific textbook. Read the chapter about phasors and pay attention to the meanings of the notations.
Ok thanks. I will go and read through my textbook.
 
  • #11
rms is a 'scaling factor'...all voltages in AC circuits (VR, VL and Vc can be quoted as rms, or average or maximum or whatever else.
This does not affect the angular relationship between these quantities...the phasor aspect of their representation.
It would be wise to be consistent
 
  • #12
Zheng_ said:
But..one of the question in my homework let that I rms = 2∠10°?
This tells you the current is i(t) = 2√2⋅sin(ωt+10°)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
35
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
5K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
Replies
6
Views
9K