How Can the Area of a Quadrilateral Be Bounded by Its Side Lengths?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of bounding the area of a quadrilateral by its side lengths. Participants explore the mathematical relationship between the area and the lengths of the sides, considering both theoretical and mathematical reasoning aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the inequality $4S \leq (a+b)(x+y)$ as a claim to be proven, where $S$ is the area of quadrilateral ABCD.
  • Another participant initially misinterprets the inequality, stating that the left-hand side is a number while the right-hand side is a vector, indicating a misunderstanding of the notation.
  • A subsequent post clarifies that all variables $a, b, x, y$ represent lengths and are thus numbers, asserting that the right-hand side is also a number.
  • A participant suggests using clearer notation for multiplication, recommending the use of $(a+b)(x+y)$ or $(a+b)\cdot(x+y)$ instead of the $\LaTeX$ \times command to avoid confusion.
  • A later post provides a derivation of the area $S$ in terms of the angles of the quadrilateral and concludes that $4S$ can be expressed as a sum involving the sides and sine functions of the angles, noting that each sine value is between 0 and 1, leading to the inequality.
  • The same participant mentions that the proof holds under the assumption that the quadrilateral is convex, while acknowledging that a re-entrant quadrilateral would have a smaller area than a convex quadrilateral with the same side lengths.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the initial interpretation of the inequality, with some clarifying the mathematical notation. There is also an acknowledgment that the proof provided is contingent on the quadrilateral being convex, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved regarding the general applicability of the inequality.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential confusion around mathematical notation and the assumptions regarding the shape of the quadrilateral, particularly the distinction between convex and re-entrant forms.

Albert1
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Quadrilateral ABCD

given :$\overline{AB}=a ,\overline{BC}=y ,\overline{CD}=b

\,\, and \,\, \overline{AD}=x$

prove :

$4S \leq (a+b)\times(x+y)$

(where S is the area of ABCD)
 
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I can tell already this is not possible, as the LHS is a number while the RHS is a vector...
 
Prove It said:
I can tell already this is not possible, as the LHS is a number while the RHS is a vector...
a,b,x,y are all numbers
(they are the length of respective segment)
the RHS is also a number
here $"\times"$
consider it as (a+b) multiplied by (x+y)
 
Albert said:
a,b,x,y are all numbers
(they are the length of respective segment)
the RHS is also a number
here $"\times"$
consider it as (a+b) multiplied by (x+y)

Albert, I would reserve usage of the $\LaTeX$ \times command for scientific notation (between the mantissa and radix) and for the vectorial cross-product to avoid potential confusion in the future. I would write either:

$$(a+b)(x+y)$$ (preferred)

or

$$(a+b)\cdot(x+y)$$
 
Albert said:
Quadrilateral ABCD

given :$\overline{AB}=a ,\overline{BC}=y ,\overline{CD}=b

\,\, and \,\, \overline{AD}=x$

prove :

$4S \leq (a+b)(x+y)$

(where S is the area of ABCD)
[sp]Write $\theta,\phi,\alpha,\beta$ for the angles $ABC,CDA,DAB,BCD$ respectively. Then $$S = \text{area of triangle } ABC + \text{area of triangle } ACD = \tfrac12ay\sin\theta + \tfrac12bx\sin\phi,$$ and also $$S = \text{area of triangle } ABD + \text{area of triangle } BCD = \tfrac12ax\sin\alpha + \tfrac12by\sin\beta.$$ Add those equations to get $$4S = ay\sin\theta + bx\sin\phi + ax\sin\alpha + by\sin\beta.$$ But each of those sines lies between 0 and 1, and so $$4s \leqslant ay + bx + ax + by = (a+b)(x+y).$$ Afterthought: Strictly speaking, that proof only works if the quadrilateral is convex. But a re-entrant quadrilateral obviously has smaller area than the quadrilateral obtained by pushing the re-entrant part out so as to form a convex quadrilateral with the same sides.[/sp]
 

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