Stargazing How Can You Improve Your Amateur Solar Imaging Techniques?

[davenn]

I will get a better photo of it on a tripod soon rather than that small one off the sales www site

This Ha filter is called a Prominence Filter and as the name suggests, shows prominences well, sunspots and
other features. At some stage I will also get a Chromosphere Filter as they show very different information

Typical Prominence Filter images ...

random google image

compare this to a chromospheric filter image ...

from ... https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/246571-17-06-2015-quark-chromosphere/Dave

 

[NFuller]

I just spend AU$2950 on a sub-angstrom Ha solar telescope today !

Can't wait to see your images using this!

 

[davenn]

I still have to sort out the imaging, plus the weather over the last week hasn't been playing ball
Got some views on Thursday and could see some prominences on the limb and a dark filament stretching across the face

Today, Saturday, lots of clouds but got some glimpses
This photo below from a mate, Ian Griffin, back in my old home town, Dunedin, New Zealand,
shows almost exactly what I was also seeing today. I just didn't see some of the finer details

note the large prominence loop on the lower left of the limb ( 7 o'clock position)
smaller ones at 8 and 2 o'clock positions
The very long filament right of centre
I could also see that small filament towards the left edge

Prominences and filaments are the same thing. It is just their position that defines their name
Prominence = on limb
Filament = on the diskDave

 

[davenn]

well dang it !

I can't find any software that I can do standard imaging with my auto guider camera.
I was hoping to use it as an imaging camera as well. I spent hours last nite downloading and installing a number (5)
of programs. Two of them were supposed to work with my cam, but unfortunately they won't recognise it.

Ohhh dear, more money to spend haha.

looking at something along the lines of this ...

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/zwo-asi178mc/

needs to be suitable for both planetary/sun as well as deep space objectsDave

 

[Drakkith]

I can't find any software that I can do standard imaging with my auto guider camera.
I was hoping to use it as an imaging camera as well. I spent hours last nite downloading and installing a number (5)
of programs. Two of them were supposed to work with my cam, but unfortunately they won't recognise it.

I had the same problem with one of my auto-guiders. I ended up buying another cheap camera instead.

 

[davenn]

I had the same problem with one of my auto-guiders. I ended up buying another cheap camera instead.

hey mate,

like a lot of interests/hobbies, tis a hole that money continues to get thrown into haha

The cam I currently have is the Orion Starshoot autoguider

https://optcorp.com/products/or-52064-starshoot-autoguider

It works well with the PHD2 autoguiding software, but with nothing else I have so far triedD

 

[Drakkith]

The cam I currently have is the Orion Starshoot autoguider

https://optcorp.com/products/or-52064-starshoot-autoguider

It works well with the PHD2 autoguiding software, but with nothing else I have so far tried

That's the exact auto-guider I was referring to.

 

[davenn]

That's the exact auto-guider I was referring to.

ohhhh WOW "snap" LOL

I never bought it to do imaging with, at that time it was for autoguiding and I got a small 50mm scope to use it with and the HEQ5 PRO GE mount
It's just now a couple of years later and with my solar scope, I was hoping to press it into use for imaging, sadly it seems its not to beD

 

[NFuller]

I can't find any software that I can do standard imaging with my auto guider camera.

Wow, that's disappointing. Orion claims that the star shoot camera can be used for imaging. Are you sure it's not just a bad setting somewhere. I think the star shoot camera is actually a QHY camera. If you set your software to connect to a QHY it might work.

looking at something along the lines of this ...

https://www.bintel.com.au/product/zwo-asi178mc/

I own an ASI120 which I use for both guiding and planetary imaging. I think they are very good cameras for the price, although some software can be a bit finicky with them.

 

[davenn]

Wow, that's disappointing. Orion claims that the star shoot camera can be used for imaging. Are you sure it's not just a bad setting somewhere. I think the star shoot camera is actually a QHY camera. If you set your software to connect to a QHY it might work.

yeah, just a bit sad

the 2 significant programs I tried (out of the five) were Sharpcap and Firecapture
both of them auto detect camera type, they don't give you the option of specifying a specific camera

they both come up with "camera not connected" or words to that effect

I own an ASI120 which I use for both guiding and planetary imaging. I think they are very good cameras for the price, although some software can be a bit finicky with them.

that has been one I have been looking at. There's a number of versions of that model to choose from
ZWO ASI120MC Colour, ZWO ASI120MM Monochrome, and the same 2 again but with USB3.0 capability

I suspect that these are great for planetary/sun but they may not do so well with deep space objects
So I am looking at something that will give me the best of both worlds. On Monday, I will talk to the guys in the shop and get some good advice and then decide which way to go Dave

 

[NFuller]

I suspect that these are great for planetary/sun but they may not do so well with deep space objects

That's right. There is not a camera which can really do both well. I use the ASI for planetary imaging and an ATIK 414EX M for deep sky imaging.

So I am looking at something that will give me the best of both worlds.

I would suggest that you look for a high frame rate camera with on-board cooling. You really will want the cooler when imaging DSOs using a CMOS type imaging chip. CMOS chips are very noisy and the noise can easily start to overwhelm the faint signal from a DSO.

Here are some of my suggestions although you may find them too pricey...
https://optcorp.com/collections/cameras/products/zwo-asi290mm-cooled-color-astronomy-camera-usb-3-0
https://optcorp.com/collections/cameras/products/atik-titan-monochrome-ccd-camera

 

[davenn]

Thanks for responding :)

That's right. There is not a camera which can really do both well. I use the ASI for planetary imaging and an ATIK 414EX M for deep sky imaging.

Probably not, but hopefully there may be a good compromise, something that is slightly better at DS but still OK for the sun ...
I have never really had the urge for imaging the planets, DS has always been my "love" till recently when I got my first solar scope

I would suggest that you look for a high frame rate camera with on-board cooling. You really will want the cooler when imaging DSOs using a CMOS type imaging chip. CMOS chips are very noisy and the noise can easily start to overwhelm the faint signal from a DSO.

yeah which is why I always prefer the CCD sensors, but there are a number of very low noise CMOS sensors out there out there
The ZWO ASI178MC falls into that category ... 6.4 MP sensor, 2.2e read noise

Here are some of my suggestions although you may find them too pricey...

on their own, no, but after having spent $3k on a stand alone solar scope and another $2k this week on another chromosphere filter
funds at the moment for a top line camera are out of range $500 +- $50 is about the limit which that ZWO ASI178 falls into at $529
Time to talk to the experts at the shop where I get my stuff. They are all active astronomers, so I feel safe with their final recommendationsDave

 

[davenn]

The ZWO ASI178MC falls into that category ... 6.4 MP sensor, 2.2e read noise

well after "talking turkey" with the guy in the shop, I have decided to go with the one above

probably will see it tomorrow and be able to try it out
Crap this hobby can get expensive ! haha AU$5500 in the last monthDave

 

[NFuller]

well after "talking turkey" with the guy in the shop, I have decided to go with the one above

probably will see it tomorrow and be able to try it out

Great! I hope it works out.

Crap this hobby can get expensive ! haha AU$5500 in the last month

Well, most hobbies worth doing end up that way

 

[sophiecentaur]

haha AU$5500 in the last month

You will just need to spend lots of time using it in order to justify the cost.

 

[davenn]

hi guys and gals

OK finally starting to figure out how to use all this new software and hardware for viewing and imaging the sun
finally a first decent image of a prominence today 2017/11/14
gear - Lunt LS60THa solar telescope, ZWO178MC camera and SharpCap software

trying to image in daytime is a real challenge ... dealing with daytime glare on a laptop screen
this is a single image capture

Dave

 

[davenn]

just a quick pic of the setup, the laptop inside cardboard box for some shielding of the screen from the sunlightI needed to stick my head into the box up close to the screen to stop the sunlight reflections off me getting onto the screen ...

 

[sophiecentaur]

Lovely image, Dave.
The hi-tek box and wheelie bin are very impressive too.

 

[davenn]

The hi-tek box and wheelie bin are very impressive too.

"necessity is the mother of invention" ... so I am told

it was suggested elsewhere that ...
1) I paint the inside of the box matt black and
2) I use a dark cloth shroud over the box and my head to further darked things ... think of photographers of old Dave

 

[sophiecentaur]

You could buy a 'toilet tent' as a form of observatory and work the whole think from inside. The scope could poke through a flap. If you cut the bottom off the fabric, you would get good air circulation. These things are available in UK for very low prices so they should be cheap anywhere in the world and you wouldn't need guy it.
PS Don't expect sympathy from a heavily autumnal UK, for having a lot of Sun.

 

[davenn]

Solar activity -- 20 Nov. 2017

a quick shot of the prominence and long winding filament on today's sun
gear - Lunt LS60THa solar telescope, ZWO178MC camera and SharpCap software

this is just a single frame

Dave

 

[sophiecentaur]

Smashing picture Dave.
Your cost per recorded pixel is dropping fast!

 

[davenn]

Smashing picture Dave.
Your cost per recorded pixel is dropping fast!

thanks buddy ahhh yes it is

one of the next steps is to figure out using the software to load in a short .avi video file
and it extracts the individual frames and stacks them. When I get to do this, we should see a big
improvement in image quality

At this time just getting used to using the scope, astro camera and software to capture single images

today's image isn't as sharp as the last one, by the time I got home from work today ~ 5pm, the sun
was getting low in the west and the light coming through much more atmosphere causing the usual instabilityDave

 

[sophiecentaur]

load in a short .avi video file
and it extracts the individual frames and stacks them.

I have read that good stacking software will select the best and reject the worst in a video sequence. That IS clever!

 

[davenn]

The Sun, 22/11/2017, about the best image so far

Reasonably good seeing conditions today

quite pleased with the result

Dave

 

[Stavros Kiri]

today's image isn't as sharp as the last one, by the time I got home from work today ~ 5pm, the sun
was getting low in the west and the light coming through much more atmosphere causing the usual instability

Still pretty good and interesting. The previous one was kind of too bright I think. Is that the normal?

 

[davenn]

Still pretty good and interesting. The previous one was kind of too bright I think. Is that the normal?

the centre is always going to be brighter than around the limb.
it's tricky ... bringing up the brightness so the prominences can be seen well and the face is way too bright
lower the brightness so the face is well exposed and the limb prominences fade away
this image is a trade off between the 2 extremes

 

[Stavros Kiri]

image is a trade off between the 2 extremes

What's the best time of the day (regular normal day/conditions) to naturally fall in between, if possible?

 

[davenn]

What's the best time of the day (regular normal day/conditions) to naturally fall in between, if possible?

when the object of interest is high in the sky ... sun moon, planets, deep space object

that is when you are viewing/imaging through the least amount of atmosphere, the lower you go towards the horizon, the thicker the layer of
atmosphere you are viewing through and hence more instability

the image in post #71 was late in afternoon, around 5:30 - 6pm and the sun was getting pretty low
hence the quality was not good.
Today's image was at 430pm still getting a bit low but not as bad, so the stability was much betterDave

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Thanks Dave. What you say makes sense.

 

[davenn]

@Stavros Kiri

The next things that is done, and it's next on my list for experiments is... doing small video clips, 500 frames or so
then these are stacked in programs like Autostakkert! 2 or Registax, it picks out the best 10 - 20% of the frames and stacks themDave

 

[Stavros Kiri]

@Stavros Kiri

The next things that is done, and it's next on my list for experiments is... doing small video clips, 500 frames or so
then these are stacked in programs like Autostakkert! 2 or Registax, it picks out the best 10 - 20% of the frames and stacks themDave

That would be neat! I'm looking forward to it.

 

[davenn]

The Sun 24 Nov 2017

trying a B&W version instead of colour ... sort of have the feeling it gives better contrast of the visible structure ?

A reasonable prominence upper left, a sprinkling of smaller ones elsewhere

some small filaments here and there but the major feature is the long lasting filamentDave

PS ... Just to clarify ... I didn't image this in B&W ( greyscale) It was imaged in colour and then fully desaturated in Lightroom whilst doing the other processing edits

 

[davenn]

The Sun 10 Dec 2017, 05:10 UT

Several really nice prominences on the sun today ... was first chance to do imaging in over 2 weeks ...
Has been a mix of nothing much to image and when there was, it was cloudy for me
But finally a clear sky and good prom's

During the 30 mins I was observing/imaging, that smaller upper right one disappeared
and the lower left one, I could see changes as material was falling back towards the sun's limb

Dave

 

[davenn]

full disk image from the 10 Dec

 

[NFuller]

Are these stacked or just single images?

 

[mr1batman]

I took this one about a year ago. Not too much happening here but I think the image came out well.
View attachment 211366

this is fantastic

 

[davenn]

The Sun in Ha -- 11 Dec 2017
There were 5 respectable prominences around the limb today

 

[Andy Resnick]

The Sun in Ha -- 11 Dec 2017
There were 5 respectable prominences around the limb today
]

You're encouraging me to take out a loan for some solar etalons...

 

[davenn]

You're encouraging me to take out a loan for some solar etalons...

that's good to hear
I would welcome more active solar observers I am so wanting to see more people post their solar images in this thread
White light, Ha etc :)

 

[davenn]

Are these stacked or just single images?

Hi ya,
Oops, sorry for the slow response. They are all just single shots

 

[NFuller]

They are all just single shots

Wow, these are very sharp for single exposures! I imagine if you do start stacking these they will come out very well resolved.

 

[davenn]

I imagine if you do start stacking these they will come out very well resolved.

yes, it would very much improve the result
Most of the guys that are into doing that do video clips consisting of around 500 to 1500 frames and then use programs that will take the best ~ 20% of those frames and stack them

 

[davenn]

2017-12-27 The Sun in Ha ...
a couple of nice prominences on the sun today ...

 

[sophiecentaur]

Good image and convincingly sharp!
Not much Sun visible here today.Thick cloud and flurries of rather wet snow, along with rain.
Time to light the log burner, I think.

 

[davenn]

Good image and convincingly sharp!

thanks ... it's still sharper visually than when imaged

Not much Sun visible here today. Thick cloud and flurries of rather wet snow, along with rain.
Time to light the log burner, I think.

been cloudy here for last 4 days. Missed some nice proms 3 days ago
It doesn't snow here at home It does occasionally do so up on the Blue Mountains ~ 8u0km to the west of SydneyDave

 

[sophiecentaur]

thanks ... it's still sharper visually than when imaged

Calls fo Unsharp Mask, perhaps?

 

[davenn]

Calls fo Unsharp Mask, perhaps?

possibly, yes ... I'm aware of the process but haven't played with it yet

 

[davenn]

2018-01-01 The Sun in Ha ...

these next two prominences were large but VERY faint ... really had to wind the exposure time up to see them

Dave

 

[Stavros Kiri]

2018-01-01 The Sun in Ha ...

My first view of the 2018 sun (haven't been out yet) ...

[and the 100th post! Al right! Yeah! ... ]