How competitive are faculty positions in research universities?

[chebyshevF]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. But I am wondering whether going to a reputable, prestigious university would weigh more on a job application, as opposed to going to one that doesn't have the same 'recognition' so to say.

Say you have two univeristies to choose from, both offer the same program, and both teach (more or less) the same subjects. Would it really matter if you went to the one that wasn't as recognised, or renowned? So long as it's an accredited institution, I don't see why a potential employer would prefer someone who went to a renowned university, as opposed to someone who didn't, assuming both applicants had similar grades and the likes.

 

[Dr Transport]

It depends on where you want to work afterword. Many industries have, for lack of a better description, feeder schools. Employers tend to hire people from specific schools because they have had a good experience with their graduates.

 

[Choppy]

Generally it does not, but there are exceptions. One example of an exception might be that some of the more prestigious business schools will inherently offer more opportunities for networking. Physics programs tend to be reasonably uniform from school to school - at least to the point where the specific courses that you take are more important than the school at which you take them.

 

[lisab]

It might make a little bit of a difference getting your first job out of school. After that, the most important thing that influences your career path is *your* reputation, not your school's.

 

[chebyshevF]

It depends on where you want to work afterword. Many industries have, for lack of a better description, feeder schools. Employers tend to hire people from specific schools because they have had a good experience with their graduates.

I would have thought that the potential employee's personality and presentation would matter more than what institution they attended (?).

Generally it does not, but there are exceptions. One example of an exception might be that some of the more prestigious business schools will inherently offer more opportunities for networking. Physics programs tend to be reasonably uniform from school to school - at least to the point where the specific courses that you take are more important than the school at which you take them.

I'm looking at Electrical Engineering. There are two universities in my city that I'm interested in. One of them is the oldest in the state, the second one is youngerr, but they both teach the same things from what I can tell. And from what I've heard from other people who go to either university, they teach the same stuff. The only difference is that the older one offers a course on photonics, which I'd like to do, whilst the other offers two courses on RF, which i'd also like to do.

It might make a little bit of a difference getting your first job out of school. After that, the most important thing that influences your career path is *your* reputation, not your school's.

Actually, I live in Australia, and once I graduate, I'd like to work for a bit here, then hopefully emigrate to the US. Do you think it would matter which university I went to to potential employers in the US? Doesn't experience matter more these days anyway (?).

 

[lisab]

I would have thought that the potential employee's personality and presentation would matter more than what institution they attended (?).I'm looking at Electrical Engineering. There are two universities in my city that I'm interested in. One of them is the oldest in the state, the second one is youngerr, but they both teach the same things from what I can tell. And from what I've heard from other people who go to either university, they teach the same stuff. The only difference is that the older one offers a course on photonics, which I'd like to do, whilst the other offers two courses on RF, which i'd also like to do.

Actually, I live in Australia, and once I graduate, I'd like to work for a bit here, then hopefully emigrate to the US. Do you think it would matter which university I went to to potential employers in the US? Doesn't experience matter more these days anyway (?).

I'd say experience matters a lot more, and the longer you've been out of school, the more it matters. As long as the school is accredited, that's the important thing.

If you plan on emigrating and working as an EE, it might be a good idea to become a Professional Engineer.

 

[twofish-quant]

I would have thought that the potential employee's personality and presentation would matter more than what institution they attended (?).

That's once you get to the interview. The hard part is getting to the point where someone is able to interview you.

You can think of big name universities as "Brains R' US". Sort of like "Toys R'US" or "Best Buy" only with brains. If you want to buy a stereo set or toys or paperclips, you end up in a department store looking for that product. Now it could be that there is some person somewhere else that is selling paperclips, but you don't know to show up there.

One other thing. Employers are usually not looking for the "best" candidate. What they often want are large number of candidates that are "good enough." If you need to hire fifty people, then you head over to your local "Brain's R' US" and then they'll have people ready for you.

Personally, I think it's a terribly bad thing that you get some advantages if you go to the big name schools. One reason I post as much as I do, is that I want to level the playing field a bit. The type of stuff that I'm posting here is the type of stuff that you learn if you go to a big name school.

Actually, I live in Australia, and once I graduate, I'd like to work for a bit here, then hopefully emigrate to the US. Do you think it would matter which university I went to to potential employers in the US? Doesn't experience matter more these days anyway (?).

It's not the employers that are the bottleneck. If you go to good school, you'll meet people that are doing more or less the same thing you are trying to do, and people that have done what you are trying to do. If you have a school with an good alumni network, you'll meet people that have already emigrated to the US, and have already looked for work and found it, and you can pick their brain for what needs to be done.

One of the hardest part of job hunting is finding out who to send your resume to. If you manage to get your resume to someone that reads it, you are already 50% to getting the job.

 

[chebyshevF]

If you plan on emigrating and working as an EE, it might be a good idea to become a Professional Engineer.

I'm not sure how that process goes in Australia, to be officially known as a 'Professional Engineer', but I think in the US you get the opportunity to do some sort of exam after you graduate and are in the work force, and then it's determiend.
Thing is, I'd rather move sooner than later to the US, after I've graduated.

You can think of big name universities as "Brains R' US". Sort of like "Toys R'US" or "Best Buy" only with brains. If you want to buy a stereo set or toys or paperclips, you end up in a department store looking for that product. Now it could be that there is some person somewhere else that is selling paperclips, but you don't know to show up there.

One other thing. Employers are usually not looking for the "best" candidate. What they often want are large number of candidates that are "good enough." If you need to hire fifty people, then you head over to your local "Brain's R' US" and then they'll have people ready for you.

That's a good analogy. Actually the two universities I'm unsure about, I've heard that both have some good industry connections. But I've also heard that the older university, gets more of the 'big companies' at its career fair day.

It's not the employers that are the bottleneck. If you go to good school, you'll meet people that are doing more or less the same thing you are trying to do, and people that have done what you are trying to do. If you have a school with an good alumni network, you'll meet people that have already emigrated to the US, and have already looked for work and found it, and you can pick their brain for what needs to be done.

One of the hardest part of job hunting is finding out who to send your resume to. If you manage to get your resume to someone that reads it, you are already 50% to getting the job.

That's very true. In regards to that though, the younger institution I was looking at, they always have commercials of their students traveling over seas to work, particularly in the US. I'll have to enquire more about it at the relevant university.

 

[twofish-quant]

Physics programs tend to be reasonably uniform from school to school - at least to the point where the specific courses that you take are more important than the school at which you take them.

There are two other factors with physics Ph.D.'s:

1) There are very few physics Ph.D.'s graduates. The US produces 100,000 MBA's each year. The US produces only about 1000 physics Ph.D.'s each year. The Harvard MBA program produces 1000 MBA's each year. Also employers hire MBA's by the truckload. We need 20 MBA's. Let's go to Harvard to get some. Physics Ph.D.'s are usually hired one by one, so people look more closely at the individual candidate.

2) People from big name physics Ph.D. schools just tend not even try to get jobs in industry. If you have an MBA, making lots of money in an investment bank is likely to be your first choice of career. If you have a physics Ph.D., this is your second or third choice, and so if you can get your first choice of working in a university, you aren't even going to apply.

MBA's are a totally different animal. So when you ask a question "do employers care about prestige" you have to describe the specific situation. It's even different from employer to employer, or manager to manager.

 

[flyingpig]

There are two other factors with physics Ph.D.'s:

1) There are very few physics Ph.D.'s graduates. The US produces 100,000 MBA's each year. The US produces only about 1000 physics Ph.D.'s each year. The Harvard MBA program produces 1000 MBA's each year. Also employers hire MBA's by the truckload. We need 20 MBA's. Let's go to Harvard to get some. Physics Ph.D.'s are usually hired one by one, so people look more closely at the individual candidate.

2) People from big name physics Ph.D. schools just tend not even try to get jobs in industry. If you have an MBA, making lots of money in an investment bank is likely to be your first choice of career. If you have a physics Ph.D., this is your second or third choice, and so if you can get your first choice of working in a university, you aren't even going to apply.

MBA's are a totally different animal. So when you ask a question "do employers care about prestige" you have to describe the specific situation. It's even different from employer to employer, or manager to manager.

Wait where do you get those stats from?

 

[twofish-quant]

Wait where do you get those stats from?

Physics Ph.D. --- http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/highlite/edphysgrad/figure6.htm
Harvard Business School MBA Enrollment -- http://www.hbs.edu/about/statistics/mba.html
MBA's granted -- http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_272.asp

 

[twofish-quant]

Also here is a table with total number of doctorates granted by field:

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_273.asp

 

[twofish-quant]

Also here is the number of new faculty hires...

http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/highlite/other/table12.htm

So you have 1000-1500 new Ph.D.'s each year. About 200 or so new faculty positions in research universities. Also note that about half of those new faculty positions are for people that are already profs elsewhere.

http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/highlite/awf08/table5b.htm