How did spacetime pop out into existence?

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    Existence Spacetime
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of spacetime and its existence at the moment of the universe's creation, often referred to as t=0. Participants explore concepts from cosmology, general relativity (GR), and special relativity (SR), questioning the assumptions behind the expansion of spacetime and the implications of a manifold in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that spacetime must have popped into existence all at once, suggesting that the entire manifold is created simultaneously rather than evolving over time.
  • Others challenge this view, stating that spacetime is the manifold itself and cannot be said to "appear" at a specific time, as this implies a temporal ordering that does not apply to spacetime.
  • A participant suggests that as space expands, time also expands, asserting that they are unified as spacetime.
  • Another participant counters that the expansion of space does not imply a corresponding expansion of time, emphasizing the distinction between the two concepts.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the existence of a time t=0, proposing that spacetime could be infinitely small and thus always existed.
  • There is a discussion about the interpretation of the FLRW solutions and whether the manifold can be considered to have a beginning, with some suggesting that the vanishing of coordinates does not necessarily indicate a point of creation.
  • Participants also explore the idea that spacetime should not be viewed as a physical entity but rather as a framework for describing the relationships between events and objects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, with multiple competing views on the nature of spacetime, its expansion, and the implications of the manifold's existence at the moment of the universe's creation. Disagreements persist regarding the interpretation of spacetime in relation to time and space.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations in the discussion include the dependence on definitions of spacetime and the assumptions made about the nature of time and existence at t=0. Participants acknowledge the complexity of visualizing these concepts and the potential for incomplete understanding of the physics involved.

  • #31
Isaac0427 said:
I'm not talking about a point in spacetime. Also, the North Pole has nothing to do with this.

It does, it is a similar concept and you need to understand this in order to have any chance of understanding what is going on.

Isaac0427 said:
Please respond to the question, not my wording.
Have you stopped to consider that your wording is very relevant to what you are asking? That you are not able to put the question in a language that is appropriate is only indicative of the fact that you are not yet familiar enough with the mathematics which go into the description of how space-time behaves. As such, we can only give you something which is somewhat of a popularisation of the theory. The theory is self-consistent and described beautifully in mathematics, in order to understand it properly, you need to learn these branches of mathematics. It is not enough to read a popular account of things and "reason" based on what you have read.
 
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  • #32
Orodruin said:
It does, it is a similar concept and you need to understand this in order to have any chance of understanding what is going on.Have you stopped to consider that your wording is very relevant to what you are asking? That you are not able to put the question in a language that is appropriate is only indicative of the fact that you are not yet familiar enough with the mathematics which go into the description of how space-time behaves. As such, we can only give you something which is somewhat of a popularisation of the theory. The theory is self-consistent and described beautifully in mathematics, in order to understand it properly, you need to learn these branches of mathematics. It is not enough to read a popular account of things and "reason" based on what you have read.
Ok, but can you please give me a simple answer: is there something that would have caused the Big Bang, or are we just assuming it appeared.
 
  • #33
Orodruin said:
Why do you find this harder to imagine than the Earth having a north pole?
Because the North Pole is the effect of the Earth's positioning. Spacetime having a beginning seems to be the effect of nothing at all.
 
  • #34
Isaac0427 said:
Because the North Pole is the effect of the Earth's positioning. Spacetime having a beginning seems to be the effect of nothing at all.

It is the effect of a coordinate system having a point at which the coordinates do not tell you very much. It is different from the singularity of the FLRW space-time in that you can remove the singularity by imposing a different coordinate system, but similar in the sense that there is a point where the given coordinate system breaks down. Once you understand this, you can start thinking about a cone with the top point removed, this is to some extent more similar to the type of manifold you would deal with in the FLRW case.

Isaac0427 said:
is there something that would have caused the Big Bang, or are we just assuming it appeared.

You are back at arguing in a manner that you have been repeatedly told does not make sense. You cannot talk of appearing or cause without a time concept, which is an integral part of the space-time itself.

The OP has been answered several times over and you are going in circles here. Thread closed.
 

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