How do electrons in materials interact?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interactions of electrons in materials, particularly focusing on the concept of quasiparticles, spin-charge separation, and the conditions under which these phenomena occur. Participants explore theoretical aspects, experimental observations, and definitions related to these topics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if an electron is divided into quasiparticles, interactions may only occur between holons at material contacts, as they carry charge.
  • Others argue against the literal interpretation of electrons splitting, emphasizing that fractionalized quantum numbers do not imply actual division of electrons.
  • Questions arise about the nature of quasiparticles, with some asserting that they are material-dependent and cannot be easily compared across different materials.
  • There is a suggestion that negative charge in materials may be attributed to either electrons or quasiparticles, depending on the modeling perspective.
  • Participants discuss the phenomenon of spin-charge separation, noting that it occurs under specific conditions, such as in one-dimensional quantum wires or constrictions.
  • Some express confusion regarding the definition and existence of quasiparticles in various materials and temperature conditions.
  • There are claims that quasiparticles are merely mathematical models and not actual objects, with evidence of fractionalization detected through indirect signatures rather than direct measurement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement on the interpretation of quasiparticles and their implications. There is no consensus on whether quasiparticles exist in all materials or under all conditions, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature and definition of quasiparticles.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying definitions of quasiparticles, dependence on material properties, and the complexity of interactions that are not fully resolved in the discussion.

Philipsmett
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If an electron is divided into quasiparticles in a material, then at the contact between the two materials does the interaction only occur between holons, since they carry a charge?
 
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As you have been told over and over:

"It's not correct to think of the microscopic electrons literally splitting when you have fractionalized quantum numbers in a material."

(From king vitamin, in this case)
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
As you have been told over and over:

"It's not correct to think of the microscopic electrons literally splitting when you have fractionalized quantum numbers in a material."

(From king vitamin, in this case)
But what about experiments on the spin-charge separation?
 
Philipsmett said:
If an electron is divided into quasiparticles in a material, then at the contact between the two materials does the interaction only occur between holons, since they carry a charge?
In different materials, quasiparticles are different, and cannot be easily compared. In particular, the notion of quasiparticles is material dependent, and your question does not make sense.
 
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A. Neumaier said:
In different materials, quasiparticles are different, and cannot be easily compared. In particular, the notion of quasiparticles is material dependent, and your question does not make sense.
What creates a negative charge in materials? Electron or quasiparticle?
 
A. Neumaier said:
In different materials, quasiparticles are different, and cannot be easily compared. In particular, the notion of quasiparticles is material dependent, and your question does not make sense.
How is the repulsion of electron orbitals?
 
Philipsmett said:
But what about experiments on the spin-charge separation?

Answered here.
 
Philipsmett said:
What creates a negative charge in materials? Electron or quasiparticle?
It depends on the level of modeling.

Don't expect to get long, detailed answers to quickly posed questions. First do some reading to understand the background, then present a question together with stating what you already learned from the literature, and why it isn't sufficient for you.
 
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A. Neumaier said:
It depends on the level of modeling.

Don't expect to get long, detailed answers to quickly posed questions. First do some reading to understand the background, then present a question together with stating what you already learned from the literature, and why it isn't sufficient for you.
"An electron can always theoretically be regarded as a bound state of three" - from Wikipedia
In the experiment, they could separate the charge and spin separately (spinone and holon), but these quasiparticles are just a mathematical model. Where does the negative charge take?
 
  • #10
Philipsmett said:
"An electron can always theoretically be regarded as a bound state of three" - from Wikipedia
In the experiment, they could separate the charge and spin separately (spinone and holon), but these quasiparticles are just a mathematical model. Where does the negative charge take?

Your questions here showed your continued misunderstanding of the concept of "quasiparticles", because you are still thinking that these are actual "objects". this is incorrect, and other than suggesting that you look again at Landau's Fermi Liquid model, I don't know what else to do.

Spin-charge separation, or in general, fractionalization, occurs in "exotic" situation, such as 1D quantum wires or when quasiparticles have to go through a constriction, where there is a confinement. We don't measure or detect such individual quasiparticles, the way you are implying in many of your questions. That would be silly, because the whole concept of quasiparticles does not exist when we pull individual particles out of its many-body interactions.

Instead, we detect the evidence of fractionalization via several different signatures. We could, for example, detect a violation of the Wiedermann-Franz law that indicates that the thermal conductivity is different than the electrical conductivity. Or we could map out the dispersion of the spin currents and the charge currents, which was done for 1D Luttinger liquids.

Never in any of these were there any consideration of "an electron" or "a particle". In basic QM, one can say the analogue statement that in such a system, an "electron" is no longer a good quantum number.

I stumbled upon this document when I was looking for something to cite. It appears to be a term paper of some sort, but it has the necessary description and references. You should have discovered this if you did a similar search on spin-charge separation.

http://guava.physics.uiuc.edu/~nigel/courses/569/Essays_Fall2010/Files/Schubel.pdf

Zz.
 
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  • #11
ZapperZ said:
Your questions here showed your continued misunderstanding of the concept of "quasiparticles", because you are still thinking that these are actual "objects". this is incorrect, and other than suggesting that you look again at Landau's Fermi Liquid model, I don't know what else to do.

Spin-charge separation, or in general, fractionalization, occurs in "exotic" situation, such as 1D quantum wires or when quasiparticles have to go through a constriction, where there is a confinement. We don't measure or detect such individual quasiparticles, the way you are implying in many of your questions. That would be silly, because the whole concept of quasiparticles does not exist when we pull individual particles out of its many-body interactions.

Instead, we detect the evidence of fractionalization via several different signatures. We could, for example, detect a violation of the Wiedermann-Franz law that indicates that the thermal conductivity is different than the electrical conductivity. Or we could map out the dispersion of the spin currents and the charge currents, which was done for 1D Luttinger liquids.

Never in any of these were there any consideration of "an electron" or "a particle". In basic QM, one can say the analogue statement that in such a system, an "electron" is no longer a good quantum number.

I stumbled upon this document when I was looking for something to cite. It appears to be a term paper of some sort, but it has the necessary description and references. You should have discovered this if you did a similar search on spin-charge separation.

http://guava.physics.uiuc.edu/~nigel/courses/569/Essays_Fall2010/Files/Schubel.pdf

Zz.
if I understood correctly, then the quasiparticle appears only under certain conditions? For example, in a human skin or a tree, the quasiparticles do not appear?
 
  • #12
Philipsmett said:
if I understood correctly, then the quasiparticle appears only under certain conditions? For example, in a human skin or a tree, the quasiparticles do not appear?

Question: what is the definition of "quasiparticles"?

I know what it is. I am not convinced that you do. So when you ask me a question such as this, no matter what answer I give you, will it make sense TO YOU, if you do not know what a quasiparticle is in the first place?

Zz.
 
  • #13
ZapperZ said:
Question: what is the definition of "quasiparticles"?

I know what it is. I am not convinced that you do. So when you ask me a question such as this, no matter what answer I give you, will it make sense TO YOU, if you do not know what a quasiparticle is in the first place?

Zz.
I know what is a quasiparticle, but I can not find information, do they appear in all materials and at any temperature?
 
  • #14
Philipsmett said:
I know what is a quasiparticle,

So tell me what you know, because I am not convinced that you do.

Zz.
 
  • #15
ZapperZ said:
So tell me what you know, because I am not convinced that you do.

Zz.
Quasiparticle, in physics, a disturbance, in a medium, that behaves as a particle and that may conveniently be regarded as one.
 
  • #16
Philipsmett said:
Quasiparticle, in physics, a disturbance, in a medium, that behaves as a particle and that may conveniently be regarded as one.

That is very vague and, in fact, rather meaningless. No wonder you are all over the place with this question.

Zz.
 
  • #17
ZapperZ said:
So tell me what you know, because I am not convinced that you do.

Zz.
ZapperZ said:
That is very vague and, in fact, rather meaningless. No wonder you are all over the place with this question.

Zz.
can you better explain?
 

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