How do I calculate the new coordinates after rotating the coordinate axes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the calculation of new coordinates after rotating the coordinate axes, exploring the mathematical relationships involved in such transformations. Participants delve into both theoretical and practical aspects of coordinate rotation, including the use of polar coordinates and trigonometric identities.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the derivation of the formulas x' = xcosθ + ysinθ and y' = -xsinθ + ycosθ, seeking clarification on their origin.
  • Another participant suggests using polar coordinates (R, phi) to express the new coordinates after rotation, proposing x' = Rcos(phi + theta) and y' = Rsin(phi + theta) as the new rectangular coordinates.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the angle addition formulas and requests further explanation on how to derive the original formulas from the polar coordinate expressions.
  • Further clarification is provided on the angle addition formulas for cosine and sine, with a participant attempting to express x' and y' in terms of these identities.
  • Another participant advises substituting the expressions for x and y in terms of polar coordinates into the derived formulas, noting that the resulting expressions are similar to the original formulas but differ due to the direction of rotation.
  • It is highlighted that rotating the coordinate axes counterclockwise is equivalent to rotating the points clockwise, suggesting that substituting -theta in place of theta is necessary to obtain the correct formulas for clockwise rotation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the derivation of the rotation formulas, with some seeking clarification and others providing insights. The discussion reflects multiple viewpoints on the relationship between polar and rectangular coordinates in the context of rotation, indicating that consensus has not been reached.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made in the derivation of the formulas, particularly concerning the direction of rotation and the application of angle addition formulas. The discussion also highlights potential confusion around the transition between polar and rectangular coordinate systems.

CrazyNeutrino
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If I have a point (x,y) and I rotate the axises by some amount. Why is x' = xcosθ+ysinθ and y'=-xsinθ+ycosθ?
 
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Look at it this way. Suppose (x,y) has polar coords R, phi. Then the rotated point has polar coords R, phi + theta. So the new rectangular coords should be

x' = Rcos(phi+theta)
y'= Rsin(phi+theta)

Now use the angle addition formulas for cosine and sine and use the fact that
x=Rcos(phi)
y=Rsin(phi)
 
Angle addition formulas for what?
I don't understand you fully :(
 
I understand that x' = rcos(theta+phi) and y'= rsin(theta+phi) and that x=rcos theta and y= rsin theta.
How do I use this to get x'= xcos theta + ysin theta
And y= -xsin theta + ycos theta
 
The last sentence is actually y'. Sorry
 
cos (α + β) = cos α cos β − sin α sin β

sin (α + β) = sin α cos β + cos α sin β

Using this, I can write, x'=rcos theta cos phi - sin theta sin phi
and y'= rsin theta cos phi + cos theta sin phi

and x= rcos phi
y= rsin phi

Now what do I do?
 
Now substitute x=rcos(phi) and y=rsin(phi) into those expressions.

You will get formulas that are almost the same as what you started with. The difference is due to the following:

The formula you derived answers the following. Given a counter clockwise rotation of the point, what are its new coordinates.

Your original question was this: If we rotate the coordinate axes, what are the new coordinates with respect to the rotated axes. To answer this we have to realize that rotating the coordinate axes counterclockwise is equivalent to rotating the points clockwise. So your new coordinates will be the coordinates you get after rotating your point clockwise. But the formula you derived is valid for counterclockwise rotations. To convert it, you must substitute -theta in place of theta. Then you will get the formula that you first asked about.
 

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